I'm a skippy, skimmy, spilly pants but I think this issue is really much more complicated than it should be.

1. Spoiler readers have their own threads so things considered spoilery to the unspoilered should be discussed there. Period. Reading back through the spoiler thread I see that I was frustrated about not being able to talk about SMG leaving Buffy and hence the show ending, but I got over that pretty quickly. I find it exciting to know something that other people don't know even if it's for a short time. And when they do find them out when the show airs, it's hilarious to read the "watch and post" and see the HSQ when they finally find out what the big deal has been.

I understand the desire to talk about these items more openly, but the fact remains that just as spoilery people seek out spoilers, the unspoiled are just as careful about not finding these things out. The only time I ever go to the WB site (and remember, I'm spoiled) is to see the Previews that are not shown in Canada (see below), so I would never see any BCS's that appear there. Also, not everyone watches entertainment shows or reads Entertainment Weekly; it's easy to remain unspoiled (unless someone's *my* husband blurts stuff out).

2. The spoiler policy in the FAQ is "Americentric"

Anything that hasn't been broadcast. So anything from the show and the preview trailers is okay

I tend to think that previews should not be considered fair game because only people who get "The WB" or "UPN" get trailers. I think I've said this before, or I might have just though it and not had the courage to say anything about it. In Canada we don't get trailers and I'm pretty sure in the UK and Australia they don't, and not everyone reads Jeff Mejia's carefully constructed posts detailing what is in these trailers. This has probably been discussed to death. If so, please ignore. Just thought I'd point that out.

Other than that, I'm afraid that if we open up the current policy to change, then we will lose a lot of posters to certain threads, which would be a damn shame.

My compromise changed, which is probably why I am confusing you.

My thought is now

1. Keep the current Angel the way it is (instead of creating a new "virgins" thread

2. Take Buffy Spoilers Lite and use it to discuss Official News in the Summer (this is what I am calling Kristen News, not a specific piece)-- right now it is the three things. We would change the name I would think to NOT call it a spoiler thread, but rather a summer official notices thread.

3. Keep Angel spoilers lite the way it is, with all casting news

4. Keep spoilers the way it is.

I am one of the middle of the road people, and I have certainly felt disenfranchised and forced to choose a deeper level of spoilage than I want. I think what this would really mean is moving the bulk of the summer discussion to the former Angel spoilers lite, which would take some work.

Megan-- i think the problem is really that people who are normally spoiler free (like me) know some things through official channels that make it so that we cannot speculate about next season's Angel without bringing them up (and therefore can't post in NAFDA Angel) but also cannot discuss in Spoilers Lite or Spoilers because those allow non-official changes that we do not wish to be spoiled for. As I said, I decided to screw it and go into spoilers, but everyone shouldn't have to do that.

Then I think that Elena's idea of a new thread, like we did with the Toraz spoiler is a good compromise. It's exactly the same situation as then and the thread would only be active for about 2 months.

Victor - I love that you're proposing a compromise.

What compromise? I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying A.) All the tools for a spoiled/spoiler free existence are already here, and B.) that this whole debate is extremely silly, especially considering how stupidly heated it's gotten at points. Not a lick of it is worth it.

I don't know that we have any way of knowing that it would satisfy any more people than the current state of affairs does (and I don't even know how many people are satisfied with the current state of affairs).

Like I said, I don't think we CAN satisy everyone. MOst likely, we won't satisfy anyone.

I also don't know how we can know how many spoilers-lite folks would hate change to the thread they usually use.

I read Spoiler Light. Most of the time, it moves like a chug boat. Once in awhile, it explodes with activity by small groups of people, who are all whitefonting the same spoiler.

The problem we've gotten ourselves into is, A.) The Spoiled People who want to talk about the BCS with everyone, which I don't particularly understand, as nearly everyone's in Spoilers this summer anyway; and B.) The unspoiled who, unfortunately for them, now know the BCS, and don't know what to do about it, except they don't want to venture into spoilers, which I mostly understand, but, short of coming up with a "Torez Spoiler" thread again, is mostly unwinnable.

I just read through 500 (!!!) posts that I missed while at Falconridge yesterday.

This:

"That major casting spoilers (to the main cast only, not recurring or guest), which are being advertised by Fox or the WB at their annual upfront presentation to advertisers, are no longer considered spoilers and may be discussed, within their respective show threads only . This only includes cast additions or departures that occur over summer hiatus only (not midseason) . Any plot points related to the character's (not the actor's) arrival or departure are to be treated as spoilers. The Main Cast are those characters who appear in the opening credits."

strikes me as being very clearly worded. I like it very, very much. Thank goodness it was in red, because otherwise I would have surely missed it.

And FTR, there've been more spoilers posted in here in the last 24 hours than there have in the Spoiler thread. ALL of these spoilers have been posted in whitefont by avowed Spoiler Virgins. What was the purpose of this?

Sophia, I appreciate the attempt to come up with a compromise, but I think this is unnecessarily complicated:

2. Take Buffy Spoilers Lite and use it to discuss Official News in the Summer (this is what I am calling Kristen News, not a specific piece)-- right now it is the three things. We would change the name I would think to NOT call it a spoiler thread, but rather a summer official notices thread.

3. Keep Angel spoilers lite the way it is, with all casting news

If we are going to leave the Angel thread as is, a place where folks can pretend to not know what they do know about next season, then the logical place to move the speculation is Angel Lite (or let me put it this way, it's where the speculative-but-relatively-unspoiled will be forced to go). Creating and/or modifying another thread isn't a good idea.

I think, however, discussion in A:SL is hampered by the need to whitefont.

I think, however, discussion in A:SL is hampered by the need to whitefont.

Yeah, can somebody please explain to me why there is whitefonting in a thread that is specifically dedicated to spoilers? I genuinely don't get it.

Sean, my understanding is that Spoilers Lite was designed as a place where people could go to confirm or mention individual bits of spoilery information, without risk of getting spoiled for other things. It's a functional rather than a discussion thread, if that makes any sense.

Jess, you asked about people who identified as unspoiled posting spoilers in the discussion here. Two answers come to mind: First, it's difficult to get to the real nuances of the changes we're discussing without reverting to specifics. Or at any rate, it seems clear and less open to interpretation than resorting to hypotheticals. Second, while some seem to see the spoiled status of the spolier free as somehow making the arguments less meaningful, I see it the other way round. It's important for the discussion to realize that, as much as the spoiled feel stifled, the unspoiled also feel pressed - and the proof of this is in the demonstration that even those actively trying to remain unspoiled have been exposed to this level of information on this board.

And FTR, there've been more spoilers posted in here in the last 24 hours than there have in the Spoiler thread. ALL of these spoilers have been posted in whitefont by avowed Spoiler Virgins. What was the purpose of this?

I never claimed to be virginal this summer I don't think, Jess, though I did say that I preferred a hardcore spoiler policy (which is true; it doesn't cause me any particular pain to not discuss what I know, as it happens, though I sympathize with people for whom that is painful).

I posted the spoilers in question in whitefont because I thought it was important to clarify exactly what would be covered under the proposed policy; I wanted to understand exactly what we were talking about. If nothing else, that'll make it possible to give a nonspoilery-yet-meaningful warning to people if the proposal passes, so they know whether they should leave the topic or not. (i.e. "if you don't know three major casting spoilers, and don't want to know them, you need to unsubscribe to the Angel topic.) I didn't really see any way to confirm that beyond posting the examples, and quite frankly anyone who's avoided them so far can probably handle not highlighting a couple of messages with spoilerfont in them.