Forget the websearch, please.

Then stop bringing it up. My comment was to LJ, making note that she'd been off in her assumption. You went into more detail about it -- you wanted me to answer, I assumed.

What we need is for The WB to give Joss his own summer series. He can talk about whatever's on his mind, he'll give out the spoilers he doesn't consider spoilers, and, you know, fun all around.

Can we look into making these votes be binding on networks?

Caught up on 800 posts. Got angry at some people, then cooled off with a combination of reasoning and mind-numbing "how do we define 'printed interview'"-type discussions. Still going to vote affirmative, even if we end up with the post-in-French proposal.

Unrelated question (like almost every other Q in here, since we're supposed to be focusing on the vote, but we just can't, dammit, we suck): If BCS-type people start using Spoilage Lite, how do they avoid non-summer casting spoilers? Would we be able to successfully whitefont those meticulously at the same time we're freewheeling the BCS?

(removed unrelated-er comment--mustn't natter, mustn't)

Then stop bringing it up.

Want pie. Want pie?

If BCS-type people start using Spoilage Lite, how do they avoid non-summer casting spoilers? Would we be able to successfully whitefont those meticulously at the same time we're freewheeling the BCS?

The thought was to repurpose one of the spoilage lite thread to be only BCS-type spoilers (the a la Kristen Press ones) and keep one the way it is. I would repurpose the Buffy thread for the a la Kristen as it doesn't currently contain Angel casting spoilers that don't fir Krsiten's definition.

In order to encourage conversation, we would really need to make an announcement and to make an effort to use the thread. I think it could becaome wuite active for the summer.

Trudy - insent to profile addy.

Plei - insent to one of your thousands. Not your profile addy, but close.

I have read nothing that would work to any degree better or worse than the set-up we have now, if people would use the Spoiler Light thread more efectively, preferably without the white font.

Victor - I love that you're proposing a compromise. I don't know that we have any way of knowing that it would satisfy any more people than the current state of affairs does (and I don't even know how many people are satisfied with the current state of affairs). I also don't know how we can know how many spoilers-lite folks would hate change to the thread they usually use.

And I won't probably vote cause this isn't a thread I have been in enough to feel comfortable doing that, but my .02 for the reading...

Cass, I know brenda already encouraged you, but you're still seeming to decline the opportunity to vote. You may already know this, but in case you don't, we don't vote in a thread. Jon B has created an online ballot form. When you complete it and submit your ballot, it is emailed to the vote counter, and an automatic confirmation is emailed to you. I don't know if this would increase your comfort level in voting. I hope it does.

...

Sophia - I think it should be clear to me, but it's not; how are you using the term BCS? Are you using it to only stand for the first, single, biggest casting news, or are you using it in the plural, to refer to all of the official regulars' casting news? Because the number has been mentioned by the spoiled, the medium, and the unspoiled in this thread, I'm talking about all three changes to regular status news items. They were all released back in May, so I'm having a hard time indicating what I mean. I hope you know what I mean.

Right now I mean to keep the NAFDA threads as they are, except with the cavat that actor's projects can be discussed, and make the Spoilers Lite into viable threads where people could discuss BCS (in one) and Other News (like Kristens news) in the other.

I'm not sure which one is Kristen's news post. I'm sorry. Can you please somehow be more specific without revealing the who and what? If you want to do so in Spoilers, please just let me know.

Perhaps it will make no one ecstatic, but it will make no one really, really unhappy. We are here to talk, and right now little talking re: Angel is happening.

Even without understanding which things would be allowed where, I'm inclined to disagree with this. I do think for the people who desire to remain completely unspoiled, it would be the least angst-making solution. But I'm not certain how it would help people with higher levels of casting knowledge. They're still being ghettoized, which is only one part of the frustration. The frustration underlying that is that they are being ghettoized, because the WB has released this official news, released it two months ago, but because they showed it to us on our computer monitor screens instead of our tv screens, it somehow doesn't count, even though it counted in summers past. Maybe I'll feel differently once I understand how you're defining your terms. Thanks.

Nutty - in addition to your summary, it may be worth noting that another issue is that the hardcore spoiler-free posters don't want to have to choose between staying out of NAFDA or getting spoiled. Yet, the middle of the road posters have been more than pinched. They've been forced to make the sort of situation you mention the spoiler-free fear facing, in the reverse. If they wanted a place to talk about that which has historically been considered acceptable summertime news, they've had to choose to be spoiled, or not post (which is, to me - a similar situation to the spoiler-free having to avoid the thread).

I'm a skippy, skimmy, spilly pants but I think this issue is really much more complicated than it should be.

1. Spoiler readers have their own threads so things considered spoilery to the unspoilered should be discussed there. Period. Reading back through the spoiler thread I see that I was frustrated about not being able to talk about SMG leaving Buffy and hence the show ending, but I got over that pretty quickly. I find it exciting to know something that other people don't know even if it's for a short time. And when they do find them out when the show airs, it's hilarious to read the "watch and post" and see the HSQ when they finally find out what the big deal has been.

I understand the desire to talk about these items more openly, but the fact remains that just as spoilery people seek out spoilers, the unspoiled are just as careful about not finding these things out. The only time I ever go to the WB site (and remember, I'm spoiled) is to see the Previews that are not shown in Canada (see below), so I would never see any BCS's that appear there. Also, not everyone watches entertainment shows or reads Entertainment Weekly; it's easy to remain unspoiled (unless someone's *my* husband blurts stuff out).

2. The spoiler policy in the FAQ is "Americentric"

Anything that hasn't been broadcast. So anything from the show and the preview trailers is okay

I tend to think that previews should not be considered fair game because only people who get "The WB" or "UPN" get trailers. I think I've said this before, or I might have just though it and not had the courage to say anything about it. In Canada we don't get trailers and I'm pretty sure in the UK and Australia they don't, and not everyone reads Jeff Mejia's carefully constructed posts detailing what is in these trailers. This has probably been discussed to death. If so, please ignore. Just thought I'd point that out.

Other than that, I'm afraid that if we open up the current policy to change, then we will lose a lot of posters to certain threads, which would be a damn shame.

My compromise changed, which is probably why I am confusing you.

My thought is now

1. Keep the current Angel the way it is (instead of creating a new "virgins" thread

2. Take Buffy Spoilers Lite and use it to discuss Official News in the Summer (this is what I am calling Kristen News, not a specific piece)-- right now it is the three things. We would change the name I would think to NOT call it a spoiler thread, but rather a summer official notices thread.

3. Keep Angel spoilers lite the way it is, with all casting news

4. Keep spoilers the way it is.

I am one of the middle of the road people, and I have certainly felt disenfranchised and forced to choose a deeper level of spoilage than I want. I think what this would really mean is moving the bulk of the summer discussion to the former Angel spoilers lite, which would take some work.

Megan-- i think the problem is really that people who are normally spoiler free (like me) know some things through official channels that make it so that we cannot speculate about next season's Angel without bringing them up (and therefore can't post in NAFDA Angel) but also cannot discuss in Spoilers Lite or Spoilers because those allow non-official changes that we do not wish to be spoiled for. As I said, I decided to screw it and go into spoilers, but everyone shouldn't have to do that.

Then I think that Elena's idea of a new thread, like we did with the Toraz spoiler is a good compromise. It's exactly the same situation as then and the thread would only be active for about 2 months.

Victor - I love that you're proposing a compromise.

What compromise? I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying A.) All the tools for a spoiled/spoiler free existence are already here, and B.) that this whole debate is extremely silly, especially considering how stupidly heated it's gotten at points. Not a lick of it is worth it.

I don't know that we have any way of knowing that it would satisfy any more people than the current state of affairs does (and I don't even know how many people are satisfied with the current state of affairs).

Like I said, I don't think we CAN satisy everyone. MOst likely, we won't satisfy anyone.

I also don't know how we can know how many spoilers-lite folks would hate change to the thread they usually use.

I read Spoiler Light. Most of the time, it moves like a chug boat. Once in awhile, it explodes with activity by small groups of people, who are all whitefonting the same spoiler.

The problem we've gotten ourselves into is, A.) The Spoiled People who want to talk about the BCS with everyone, which I don't particularly understand, as nearly everyone's in Spoilers this summer anyway; and B.) The unspoiled who, unfortunately for them, now know the BCS, and don't know what to do about it, except they don't want to venture into spoilers, which I mostly understand, but, short of coming up with a "Torez Spoiler" thread again, is mostly unwinnable.