I'm not sure I agree with your analogy though. I think it's more of a who doesn't know that Bayer's asprin. We used to accept some things as general knowledge. That's why I'm asking about the musical. I have the impression that that was general knowledge, in much the same way as the BCS is (ie promoted the hell out of even before a promo ever aired).

And did it actually end up spoiling anything? Because I think that the information was so widely spread that it was, in fact, common knowlege...

There were people in the Buffy thread who were *vehement* that it should not be posted that SMG was not coming back for an 8th season. So *they* seemed to feel it was a spoiler.

And, true, it was not in a promo. Because what a dull promo that would be.

Coming this fall: NOTHING.

I think everyone agrees that buffy not being permanantly dead and the show surviving was very much an acceptable exception.

Somewhere out there, is a someone who disagrees, Trudy. It'd be hyperbolic if it weren't true, but many of us didn't know if we could post that SMG did not sign on for eight. That's the current climate, and it appears (though it may be untrue), that we're vigilantly protecting a few people who get to arbitrarily decide what is a spoiler. The state of SMGs contract was never in any promo, and the end of Buffy not til the last five episodes.

I do think we need to try and change the tone of this conversation a bit - including ignoring provocations.

You don't have to understand a spoiler-virgins point of view to understandt that they do in fact want to stay spoiler virgins.

You don't have understand a not-quite-so-spoiler vigins (because this is not coming just from ho's) to understand that they do in fact find some of the suppression of conversation extremely frustrating.

I think we need to avoid the use of provactive language right now while emotions are high.

I think the supporters of this will have to assume (in the abscence of proof otherwise) that the asking the thread be closed at midnight on grounds that the grandfather clause mooted it was done in the sincere belief that the issue was settled.

I think those who asked that to close the thread at around midnight, have to understand that it was natural that their timing raise some eyebrows.

I think the orginal proposal was intended as a compromise. I think that Trudy's proposals have been intended as compromises. I think both sides will have to realize that the other side does not see them as compromises.

Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya, my lord , Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Oh Lord, Kumbaya

The problem is that it's hard to determine what, in fact, is common knowledge and what is not.

Right now, it's you and Trudy who are determining what the rest of the people can and cannot say, because as outlined by the "SMG will not return" news, you've said that's okay. "Nick Brendon will not be on Angel" is not okay. This is puzzling. This is why I think it's important to hammer it out.

well, yes, somewhere out there someone says lots and lots of things.

Either talk about casting on the thread and make people (who've been here from the beginning) decide whether they need to leave the community in order to enjoy the show or don't.

Cindy, in this post you spell out the Google terms I used to verify a casting spoiler. Since I stated I was looking up a spoiler, it's kinda telltale. Can you white them back out again?

"SMG will not return" news, you've said that's okay. "Nick Brendon will not be on Angel" is not okay

This was settled a LONG time ago.

The first meant that there would be no show. The second meant that people who had been spoiled that someone from buffy was moving to angel now had one less canditate and were thereby more spoiled.

Nick wasn't a problem in and of it's self, it was an exascerbation of the elephant.

It seems to me that this discussion has devolved into an argument, rather than a way for all parties to work hard to reach a workable consensus. Spoiler Ho's and spoiler phobes are never going to agree. Ever. And, really, why should they? The way people experience an art form is so visceral and so personal that it may never be understandable by those with a different preference. The point here is not to convince or condemn but to make the board work for everybody. There has to be a way to do that, I think.

And let me just add this, although I respect everyone's opinions, do I feel sorry for any of you? No, because none of you have suffered as I have suffered. I like to be someowhat spoiled and live with a big spoilerphobe and so had to sit at a dinner table many times WITH A BUFFY WRITER and not talk about what was going to happen. Oh, the pain! And the BF suffered, too, as Jane let slip stuff without meaning to sometimes and then he was stuck knowing what he didn't want to.

Do you feel sorry for me now? No? Oh, well.

Right now, it's you and Trudy who are determining what the rest of the people can and cannot say, because as outlined by the "SMG will not return" news, you've said that's okay. "Nick Brendon will not be on Angel" is not okay. This is puzzling. This is why I think it's important to hammer it out.

You know, saying that Leonard Nimoy will not be on AtS is not a spoiler. Saying that he will be is. Saying that AA will be returning is not a spoiler (because, IMO, status quo is the expected); saying that AA will not be returning is. Saying NB will not be on AtS is not a spoiler - unlesss (and I believe this was the case in the oft mentioned kerfluffle) it has first been mentioned that someone from BtVS will be on AtS.

Maybe it's a fine distinction, but the difference, to me, is that the assumption that the regular cast will be returning is pretty typical. Learning who is added or leaving changes the way people think of the upcoming season. For some people that increases the pleasure, for others, not so much.

(edit) You know what? I am kind of expecting that my definition of casting spoiler is the norm - What? You don't know how a COX-II inhibitor differs from an NSAID? How bizarre! - and I'm certainly not expecting people to wrap me in cotton wool. I will not winge about things, I will simply not be able to actively participate in any threads that have a looser spoiler policy than the one currently stated in our FAC.