The fact that there weren't loud objections doesn't mean they weren't spoilers.

How about the reason they weren't spoilers is because they weren't anybody else's idea of spoilers except for yours? And whoever else may not have made a loud (or any) objection?

Sorry. I've been trying to keep clear of the more volatile elements of this, as a newbie (at least as a poster), but Trudy, I love most of what you post, but the above quote was the first time that wasn't something from someone on here I thought was some form of troll that made me scream "Oh FUCK YOU!" out loud to at my monitor. And I talk to my monitor a lot, sadly.

It makes me want to say, deal with the vote or take your toys and go home. And I really don't want to be saying that. I'll deal with the vote quite nicely, whichever way it goes, whether I like it or not.

And if that's a flame, please let me know, becuase I will apologize. I didn't think I thought as strongly on this as I do - and as far as the OUTCOME - I don't. I just object highly to the content of the arguement against, right now.

But I do not understand where all the anger is coming from.

Because the rules shifted gradually, without discussion, and we feel like common sense was thrown out with the bathwater.

Things that would have been fine for discussion very recently suddenly aren't.

This point keeps getting ignored.

If you want to talk about slippery slopes and the erosion of rights, that's pretty much where you start, all apologies for the hyperbole.

Plei, we give back the shift, promise.

Let's take the policy as it stands and discuss it from there.

I just don't see why the fight.

I think the fight started because the rhetoric got unnecessarily heated. But maybe that's just my read on the tone. [I was going to say that folks backed down, but it seems like some are still upset.]

And I especially do not understand where all the contempt for the unspoiled is coming from.

I did not realize anyone was expressing contempt for the unspoiled. I doubt anyone intended to sound contemptuous, so there may be a bit of a misunderstanding here.

I did not realize anyone was expressing contempt for the unspoiled. I doubt anyone intended to sound contemptuous, so there may be a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Burrell, I don't know if you read the spoiler thread. I do not believe that it's unintentional or a misunderstanding.

I think folks quickly backed down from that, too.

I guess I don't see why the disagreement -- that there's not a level playing field, and people are arguing completely different things (Plei thinks non-spoilers shouldn't be whited out, and it makes her angry, Trudy thinks spoilers should be whited out, and it makes her angry), but it could be that I'm the one mistaken. And I want to be sure.

It looks like people on both sides feel marginalised, while neither feel like they're marginalising.

As it stands, the proposal will make certain threads untenable for some people. This is making some folks tetchy.

The Phoenix has gotten more and more spoiler-restrictive over more of its breadth, and this is also tetchmaking.

Can I be confident in extrapolating that not only is the definition of spoiler an issue here, but how far this will extend? That Trudy, for instance, won't be comfortable in Bitchy Fic or Bitches under the new definition?

I have been reading the spoiler thread. Much discussion of coriander, basil, and cilantro. There is frustration, but I wouldn't say contempt - at all. It is frustrating to try and please all the people all the time and I applaud that we try so hard to get there.

edit to spell spices right.

Plei, we give back the shift, promise.

Let's take the policy as it stands and discuss it from there.

As far as I see the problem that's being argued is that the shift has already happened, and the spoiler-phobes are arguing against it's reinstatement. The question up for vote, as it stands, IS about the shift.

Am I wrong on this?

Can I be confident in extrapolating that not only is the definition of spoiler an issue here, but how far this will extend? That Trudy, for instance, won't be comfortable in Bitchy Fic or Bitches under the new definition?

I can say that I would not be comfortable in any NAFDA thread under the new definition.

I don't know if you read the spoiler thread. I do not believe that it's unintentional or a misunderstanding.

Umm, do you? Because I do, and I see there a fair bit of frustration, much like what you'll see in this discussion, but not contempt.