If I took Plei's recent post correctly, I've just learned that AD never was shown in a televised promo.

Well, slight sarcasm and hyperbole on my part.

I've just never seen him in any of the "look at the shiny pretty people" shots that they did with DB, CC, and even, IIRC, VK.

Plei, are you willing to be included in the proposal? That's all I'm kvetching about right now (well, that and DON'T use GoogleNews if you don't want to get more spoiled about what you think you know).

Sure. Though vagued up to "when in doubt, ask a known Ho." or something.

There are plenty of us, after all. I was just the AtS Spoiler Fairy last season.

It looks like I upset you, Cindy, and I didn't mean to.

Cindy, I have no idea how you feel about preferential voting. All I'm referring to is the bit in that debate where people were told how to feel about it. And I apologise if I opened a wound.

The point I was going for was that it keeps (and those were just the two cites that popped up while I was at lunch, both from the same POV) being mentioned how other people feel. But I think we just have to take Elena/Jess/whoever's word for it, if they say they like/need/disdain the HSQ, and where they find the HSQ lives.

SAHM == Stay At Home Mom. And I have to admit, I'm confused by the idea that one person can be a regular on two shows at once, but there you go.

Vector == method. If I'm told that it will be inevitable that I find out that JAR has left the show before the show airs, I'd like to know how, is all. Since he can have his own show, not appear in the promos, have no mentions in the press, and still have his disappearance explained at 9:01 October 8th.

Which some people (not me, I don't care, I'd like the headstart on my handwringing e-mail campaign to ME) would consider ... being spoiled for a character's absence, that there's no way they'd have found out about it if it hadn't been discussed in thread.

The fact that I don't think a regular departure is a big deal isn't something I like to focus on in this discussion. Which is why I was harping, again, on the inevitability thing.

DB leaves the show? Probably inevitable. The rest? NSM.

I still think it's a red herring in this discussion

I don't mean it to be. I mean it to be a caution against casting a net too wide.

so-and-so is coming or won't show up at all, doesn't tell us word one about how it will be addressed

And I've never debated that. Just putting forward the POV that it negatively impacts some people's experience of the show.

Question - Did we kill Jim? Has Jim killed himself, for making this proposal?

Is Jim making a list and checking it twice, to decide which concerns he wants to address in the final language?

Has Jim set up his PC to block him from going to www.buffistas.org

Tune in for these, and other exciting developments in the next episode of Buffistas Screw in LightBulbs.

I mean, how I read the current proposal is that if someone with ME (presumably including an actor) or someone with an airing network releases the information to any kind of publication, no matter how small, then that information can be discussed.

That's not how I read it. I read it as, if the spoiler has been *promoted* not simply mentioned in an interview. In other words, if it is being used to sell next season on WB's website, etc. If billboards with the new cast spring up over LA and NYC. Things like that. Am I misreading it?

Also, I may well be obtuse, but I don't think that we need to specify checking the spoiler through a known ho. In fact, I'd say if the info on the spoiler was slim enough to warrant such a search, it's not widely known and therefore would not fall under this policy.

I'd like the headstart on my handwringing e-mail campaign to ME

You aren't considering the possibility that he's joining a show set in a universe where they've never invented the shirt, are you?

In fact, I'd say if the info on the spoiler was slim enough to warrant such a search, it's not widely known and therefore would not fall under this policy.

How do you know the info is slim before you search, though? My best friend tells me Christian Kane is gonna be a regular, and I want to discuss it (because ... hello!). I have to find out how disseminated it is. "Widely" doesn't tell me much, because the current one I admit is "widely"? The only official stuff about it I've seen was linked to from this board. Haven't bumped into it anywhere else (though I know I will, later).

I really think the proposal is in danger of getting more and more complicated. Major, not minor, characters. Summer, not fall or winter or spring. GoogleNews, not Google. Unspoken-but-agreed-upon news sources in unspoken-but-agreed-upon major markets. If 98.7% of Buffistas including lurkers are presumed to know, but of course we can't ask them because then we'd spoil them....

And not to mention all the veiled stuff all day today about which specific unnamed people will have to avoid which threads on which dates.

Let me restate my earlier point, this time as a proposal:

Change "aired on the WB, including promos"

to

"Officially published by the network."

That covers promos, the WB website, posters in bus shelters, full-page ads in TV Guide. It doesn't include "stuff you heard at a con" or "this interview on a spoiler site but it's not too spoilery." It's a clear, bright line. It is -- and this is a crucial point -- extensible to other shows and networks, not just the WB on October 8th, 2003. The point-and-shrug simplicity is still there. But it'll ease up considerably on the feeling a lot of people have had that they're afraid to say anything lest they slip up.

(Not to mention the part where the bastages never bother to air promos for our shows mumblegrumbleoppressedfancakes.)

Here's the original version, Burrell:

"That major casting spoilers (to the main cast only, not recurring or guest), which are being advertised by Fox, the WB or ME in press advertising or their official website, are no longer spoilers, and should be discussed in the show threads. This includes cast additions or departures. The Main Cast are those characters who appear in the opening credits."

The changes that - Cindy? - suggested were all to do with summer timing and clarification of where you wouldn't be able to discuss things, if I remember correctly.

I suppose it depends on how you define "press advertising." I was defining it as "someone official says something to the press, knowing perfectly well they'll be quoted."

It looks like I upset you, Cindy, and I didn't mean to.

No, really you didn't. Or at worst, I was upset when I started but got interrupted so many times, I wasn't by the time I was finished. I'm sorry it came across in my post. Mostly though, I "WOW"d at you, because I thought I upset you and didn't mean to. I thought that admittedly, because I took the pref. voting thing as a dig, but I understand now that it wasn't. Apologies not necessary, ita.

The point I was going for was that it keeps (and those were just the two cites that popped up while I was at lunch, both from the same POV) being mentioned how other people feel. But I think we just have to take Elena/Jess/whoever's word for it, if they say they like/need/disdain the HSQ, and where they find the HSQ lives.

I agree we have to take people's word on that. I'm just not getting where that there is an actual one wrt major casting changes, given that it's already accepted we'll talk about this stuff once promos air. I feel like (and I could be very wrong) this is as much about resisting a change, as it is about a true worry about being spoiled, because it seems to me, all that happens is the subject is open yes - sooner - but still before an episode ever airs.

And I have to admit, I'm confused by the idea that one person can be a regular on two shows at once, but there you go.

Me, too.

As for vector=method - well then, I think I answered the question, but I went on so long, I don't know how much my answer answered.