Karl, I wasn't a reader of the SPN thread, but I want to express my apology for your experience.

I love us all, and I regret my lack of awareness and support for any of you who were hurt or offended.

Seconding both of these, and adding that I'm so sorry for my own contributions. I know I was one of his occasional defenders, probably because I identified with his lostness and awkwardness and social floundering so deeply. From my teens into my early twenties, I was so much like him I give myself the creeps thinking about it, and it made me extend the benefit of the doubt longer than I should have and ignore the expressed bad feelings of Buffistas whom I love and respect. I'm deeply sorry.

(Edited to delete waffle words and own my shit.)

If it was the case of one or two reports of interactions gone sour, I'd slide towards benefit-of-doubt, but there are too many, and some of them from sources whose judgment I have long trusted.

I'm really sad about this, because this is a side of PC I have never experienced. In a way, it feels like I'm mourning a death.

I had no idea. Came over here due to DC's post on FB. I am so sorry that so many buffistas were hurt, discomfited and driven away by Sunil's behavior.

I agree that a vote for skipping the usual process is good - both to make. Lear that we are conscious of the break in our usual process and because it brings the issues and circumstances to the attention of the whole community.

It makes me sad that any of us chose to avoid this place and f2f gatherings because of him.

I'm really sad about this, because this is a side of PC I have never experienced. In a way, it feels like I'm mourning a death.

I feel the same way. But also angry.

This is such a perfect illustration of why dealing with harassment is so hard. When several people say, "Nah, I didn't care about that [comment, joke, inappropriate whatever]!" it makes it a lot harder for the people to who do care about it to speak up. I say this as a person who is often on the "wrong" side, and needs to think hard about it.

I echo what Trudy said earlier about everyone cutting themselves some slack. Manipulators are good at this stuff y'all. Dividing groups is so commonplace. I do believe we could not have had this conversation many years ago when some of these things occurred, the board has mellowed A LOT and we have had the benefit of witnessing so many other social network ups and downs.

Looking back on the thread Karl linked, I was sure that I'd have just seen the "joke" as an unfunny but also non-serious example of such, and was surprised that I actually posted a serious statement about objectification and why it's not an equal opportunity offense shortly thereafter. Did not recall the incident or my actual reaction to it at all.

I support a procedure change or immediate suspension.

I've been thinking about what Karl posted in that old Supernatural thread, trying to remember how I felt about the discussion. It's hard to look at something from that long ago and not apply a current emotional reaction to it. I do remember thinking that Karl was right in what he said, but a number of folks shrugged it off, so I went along with the majority as "eh, one of us and boys will be boys". (I can be easily swayed and Sunil's apology seemed sincere.)

Now, I can look back, and with a much greater awareness of concepts like internalized misogyny, I can better understand the reactions that we exhibited. It's prevalent in society, in our lives, it takes some really careful analysis. I have to very belatedly thank Karl and Matt for calling out Sunil's behavior, because it shows me how insidious internalized misogyny is. It is something that I now understand was the only way I coped with 14 years in the Navy and the underlying reason I eventually left, even though I didn't have the term for it at that time.

I'm sad that we've all had to learn the hard way, but grateful for the lesson so I can be more on guard.

I didn't participate in the SPN thread, but I did go back and read it. It really is indicative of...something that Karl and Matt and DX had those reactions, and the women had their reactions. And I'm not trying to judge anyone for what they said or felt, just looking back at it with the benefit of hindsight.

I said this in an email somewhere over the weekend, but I owe an apology to DX for not taking it seriously enough when he expressed his concerns about P-C.