Wash: You want a slinky dress? I can buy you a slinky dress. Captain, can I have money for a slinky dress? Jayne: I'll chip in. Zoe: I can hurt you.

'Shindig'


Natter 77: I miss my friends. I miss my enemies. I miss the people I talked to every day.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, butt kicking, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Steph L. - Nov 03, 2021 8:50:40 am PDT #10372 of 30000
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

And what is making this so difficult for me is that I am completely unable to discern what is and isn't abuse.

I understand how that complicates things. I really, really do, and it fucking sucks.

But I'm going to echo Dana and say that, in this scenario, you don't have to determine if your therapist is being abusive or not. If (for the sake of argument) he's not abusive, you still aren't ever obligated to remain his client. You can just stop because it's not working for you any more.


sj - Nov 03, 2021 9:05:32 am PDT #10373 of 30000
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Teppy and Dana are wise. Therapy is about you and your needs not your therapist.


Matt the Bruins fan - Nov 03, 2021 9:05:50 am PDT #10374 of 30000
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Or just because you would feel more comfortable with another therapist, regardless of results with this one. The "and another thing" call strikes me as crossing a line, and one thing a therapist should definitely be mindful of is maintaining healthy boundaries.


Steph L. - Nov 03, 2021 9:16:22 am PDT #10375 of 30000
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

IIRC, he's a traditional Freudian analyst, and you've been seeing him twice a week for a decade?

I wanted to go back to this, too. It really might be time for a different therapeutic modality. Sensorimotor psychotherapy can be very effective for trauma. (It can be a rough process, because I'd still rather repress everything and not acknowledge my shit [hey, I am what I am], but I cannot deny that it's helped me a lot.)

And also, my brother has had a lot of success with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy for his C-PTSD. (So much so that he's getting trained to administer ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, because there are very few providers in Colorado who do that right now.)


meara - Nov 03, 2021 9:24:59 am PDT #10376 of 30000

you don't have to determine if your therapist is being abusive or not. If (for the sake of argument) he's not abusive, you still aren't ever obligated to remain his client. You can just stop because it's not working for you any more

This. Hell, I’d want him to refund me for any session where he fell asleep but whatever. Find a new therapist.


Jessica - Nov 03, 2021 10:00:47 am PDT #10377 of 30000
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

I'm going to echo Dana and say that, in this scenario, you don't have to determine if your therapist is being abusive or not. If (for the sake of argument) he's not abusive, you still aren't ever obligated to remain his client. You can just stop because it's not working for you any more.

Thirding this - the line for "should I continue paying this professional for his services" can be set way, way lower than manipulation/abuse. If he's falling asleep during sessions, he's not providing the service you're paying for, and you, the client, can end that relationship for that reason alone.


Topic!Cindy - Nov 03, 2021 11:07:28 am PDT #10378 of 30000
What is even happening?

And what is making this so difficult for me is that I am completely unable to discern what is and isn't abuse.

Tom, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I agree with Jessica, Teppy, and Dana. You don't have to discern whether or not this is abuse. Not all unsatisfactory treatment is abuse. It does not have to amount to abuse for you to decide you deserve better (and you do).

Your reasons for ending this professional relationship are based on evidence that he is not up to the job. If a barber, pharmacist, waiter, or M.D. fell asleep when I was engaging their professional services, I would no longer do so. The same holds true for a therapist, regardless of his personal health concerns. He cannot do the job when he is asleep.

For the sake of argument, let's assume the therapist is telling the absolute truth about the reasons he fell asleep. How are you supposed to keep your mind on the work you are doing in therapy, if you're wondering if the therapist is even conscious? How are you supposed to do your part, if you can't trust him to do his (even if the sleeping can be blamed on an illness)?

I know to a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but when you mentioned he'd gotten bad news about a medical test, I fully expected you to then say he then confessed he had a drink (or took medication) to calm himself down, and that made him drowsy.

I'm the adult child (hammer) of an alcoholic (nail), which is why I thought this story was going to be that kind of story. Even after your account didn't end that way though, AND after I realized why *my* brain was inclined to go there, I still thought it a possibility (between the previous sleeping episode, and the times you realized he didn't seem to be all there). I thought it, because he has excuses at the ready.

BUT, even if I'm wrong, and this isn't a nail, it is some other sort of health problem which, while sympathetic, is rendering him unable to do his job. I would feel bad for the cabbie with narcolepsy, but I'd avoid his cab.


Steph L. - Nov 03, 2021 11:12:33 am PDT #10379 of 30000
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

I would feel bad for the cabbie with narcolepsy, but I'd avoid his cab.

Wow. YES. You are eminently wise, Cindy.


-t - Nov 03, 2021 11:15:13 am PDT #10380 of 30000
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Oh, Tom, how awful! I agree with everyone else - dump him pronto. You can work on how cutting him off affects you with someone else who will stay awake and be present during sessions. I don't see how staying with him will help you (or would help anyone) at all.


DebetEsse - Nov 03, 2021 11:31:59 am PDT #10381 of 30000
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Yeah, I'm side-eying the dude real hard.