Ouhh! Snacks! The secret to any successful migration! Who's up for some tasty fried meat products!?

Anya ,'Touched'


Spike's Bitches 49: As usual, I'm here to help you, and I... are you naked under there?

Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


askye - Oct 24, 2021 8:04:59 am PDT #7698 of 8080
Thrive to spite them

I don't think this was a replacement armorer, but from what I read this is only the 2nd big production where she has done.

There have been reports that there were 2 accidental discharges previously during the production, no one was injured, but it doesn't sound like there were any changes to what they were doing.


Vortex - Oct 24, 2021 11:22:55 am PDT #7699 of 8080
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

I think that it is very clear that basic prop gun safety procedures were not followed here, made worse by the fact that there were previous incidents that did not cause the crew/director to establish better procedures.

One article I read claimed that the assistant director just picked the gun up off of a prop table and gave it to Alec Baldwin. No one cleared the gun for use. The gun should not have been on a prop table, and the armorer should have been on scene to clear the gun, give it to the actor, then take it back and clean it/lock it up after the scene.


DebetEsse - Oct 24, 2021 12:24:38 pm PDT #7700 of 8080
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Yeah, reading the descriptions of the AD's behavior on-set, I can imagine that, even if the armorer was trying her best, if no one was backing her up on safety, it's easy/possible to get steamrolled by assholes like that, especially as a younger woman.


Tom Scola - Oct 25, 2021 8:59:00 am PDT #7701 of 8080
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500

Ugh.

Producers on the set of Rust cut significant corners when it came to safety protocols and working conditions, according to those who were involved and familiar with the project.


Toddson - Oct 25, 2021 10:12:33 am PDT #7702 of 8080
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

I realize I know virtually nothing about this, but is there a reason to have live ammunition on a set?


EpicTangent - Oct 25, 2021 10:16:10 am PDT #7703 of 8080
Why isn't everyone pelting me with JOY, dammit? - Zenkitty

That's what I was thinking, Todd.


Steph L. - Oct 25, 2021 10:36:16 am PDT #7704 of 8080
Apparently if you're enough of a power nerd, there is nothing that cannot be flowcharted.

I think Trudy is going to be our best source of information on this, but from the articles I've read about this incident, even blanks are considered "live ammunition," because they still involve the use of gunpowder.

Producers on the set of Rust cut significant corners when it came to safety protocols and working conditions, according to those who were involved and familiar with the project.

Was Alec Baldwin also a producer of this film? That's not great for him.


DebetEsse - Oct 25, 2021 12:28:09 pm PDT #7705 of 8080
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Yeah, someone commented that actor Alec Baldwin was not at fault...PRODUCER Alec Baldwin, on the other hand...

I agree that Trudy will know best.

There are benefits to having things be as real as possible onset. If you've seen an actor swinging around a clearly empty cup of "coffee" or an unconvincing cgi location, you get the idea.

There are strict protocols for safe firearms handling on-set (and onstage, for that matter) when they are followed, it's pretty safe. It's when people get sloppy that things go wrong, and this was clearly a sloppy production.

On the issue of "live" ammo. One of the two exemplars of on-set deaths was an actor who was fooling around with a gun loaded with a blank. He put it up to his head and pulled the trigger. The explosion force went down the barrel, which was empty, but rather than dissipating into the air, as it would have in the planned scene, it ran into his skull at the end and pushed a chunk into his brain.

IMO, the moral of the story is not "ban dangerous things" as anything can be dangerous if mishandled but, rather, the absolute need for safety protocols in line with the level of risk in a given scenario. Discipline is hard, and takes time (=$) and isn't fun (unless you're into that sort of thing) but it's the thing that makes the fun possible.


Trudy Booth - Oct 25, 2021 2:50:16 pm PDT #7706 of 8080
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Yes, blanks would be called "live" even though they aren't bullets - they can indeed kill someone (like happened with Jon Erik Hexum) at close range. That's why they're treated as "live."

To make it more confusing, there is some concern that it actually WAS an actual bullet - there are stories of people target shooting on set. Nothing on a set should be capable of doing that.

Any gun-appearing item on a set is treated as a gun. They don't "lie out on carts" to be picked up. They're taken from the weapons master and returned to the weapons master who locks them up. Even if they're solid rubber. You can't wear it to lunch. You can't wear it to the can. I saw a dude politely fired for wearing his "gun" to crafty to get a snack. "Sorry, we're going to have to send you home."

When we shot the riot on OitNB the safety meeting happened repeatedly for a gun that was one solid piece of metal because it was being drawn and pointed at people. On a quiet set, the AD (standing with the weapons master) held up a the gun and said: "This is solid metal. It cannot be fired. It has never been a real gun. It has no moving parts. It is as heavy as a real gun and could hurt someone if used to hit them. We are not doing that in this scene. The barrel is blocked. It cannot be fired. ::shines flashlight into barrel:: "If anyone would like to inspect the gun please raise your hand."

Then he brought it to people who had raised their hands. And a few people who hadn't raised their hands. We did some version of this every time we left the set and returned to it - lunch, breaks, turn-arounds. One time I did take a look at the gun, shine the flashlight in the barrel. When it was pointed at me later I was really happy I had. Shooting riots can get scary. Obviously you know its pretend (you're on a sound stage, there's cameras everywhere) but you're trying to get upset and everyone around you is trying to get upset and there's yelling and sometimes smoke. Sets are hazardous even when you're not shooting a riot - there's cables everywhere, booms, and cameras and light rigs swinging around. Everything was put in place to be broken down easily and an area that was clear for your exit five minutes ago is a pile of stuff now. And you're incredibly careful with even the coldest of cold guns..

Tom's article makes me wonder if they hired someone relatively inexperienced they could push around in the name of "saving time."


Laura - Oct 25, 2021 4:27:35 pm PDT #7707 of 8080
Our wings are not tired.

Mostly I am waiting for some official account to answer questions. I keep seeing various experts on tv speculating. A number of people know what happened and things like whether it was a bullet in the gun. The fact that they haven't said is concerning. It is just so heartbreaking for all concerned.