These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I -- how about that?

Kaylee ,'Shindig'


Boxed Set, Vol. VI: I am not a number, I am a free thread!

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


sj - Dec 12, 2018 5:24:17 am PST #1242 of 2020
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

They've been airing one a night. So, they're really adding up on my DVR.


-t - Dec 12, 2018 5:38:11 am PST #1243 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

OH, wow, I wondered how they were on episode 10 already.

DW: actually, it's more like someone was given a set of bullet points of "what people like about Doctor Who" that included things like "moral authority" and told to crank out something appropriate by tomorrow. Feels like an essay written on the Cliff's Notes rather than the text, somehow.


Vonnie K - Dec 12, 2018 6:23:05 am PST #1244 of 2020
Kiss me, my girl, before I'm sick.

I quit all the CW superhero shows cold turkey, like, 2 seasons ago, but managed to DVR the Elseworlds crossover after catching some ads for it. Turns out I didn't really need to know what each respective show was up to -- it was pretty self-contained (except for the part that Oliver was apparently... in prison recently and was on the outs with Felicity. Ehh, whatev.) And as usual, the crossover was a ton of fun. Especially the earlier parts where Grant Gustin and Stephen Amell tried to play each other's role (man, that Flash suit is not designed to flatter someone with Amell's build.) And Oliver being a total grump about Batman. Reminded me of why I used to love these show so much.

Not sure what to think about Ruby Rose as Batwoman. She looked cool but I think she was a bit flat, acting-wise? I know nothing about DC Comics canon other than through various movies though.


-t - Dec 12, 2018 6:40:15 am PST #1245 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Aw, cool, I haven't watched any of those in a couple of seasons but was intrigued by the Elseworlds ads.


sj - Dec 12, 2018 7:07:39 am PST #1246 of 2020
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Elseworlds was very good. Though, I'm still watching all the CW shows.


billytea - Dec 12, 2018 8:32:25 pm PST #1247 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Now here's an oddity in the evolution of Chris Chibnall. Chris Chibnall wrote an 11th Doctor episode back in Season 7, called Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I rate it as one of his best, because it is entirely true to label (it has dinosaurs! And they're on a spaceship!). But it has problems; the villain is an uncomfortable embodiment of certain anti-Semitic stereotypes (and is named Solomon). And in the climax, after Solomon's already been neutralised as a threat to anyone, the Doctor rather gratuitously blows the guy up. A rather out-of-character act of violence.

Pretty much the antithesis of this season. Aside from the equally gratuitous 'splosions at the end of Kerblam! (also true to label!), this Doctor is more opposed to killing than any previous incarnation. It would make sense for her pacifism to be Chibnall's reaction to a backlash from the end of Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. (Which could also explain why it's so incoherent, if it's reactive rather than due to any personal conviction.)

But I've heard a more entertaining theory. It's a reaction to criticism of DoaS, yes, but it's Chibnall's backlash. "You got a problem with the Doctor killing someone? Fine, this Doctor agrees with you! Let's see how that works, huh?" By the end of the season, we have people complaining this Doctor is too nice, too unwilling to take decisive action. She lets people get off scot free. Her inaction is sometimes more cruel than prospective killings she berates. Her moral code is so indistinct that she equates a genocidal maniac with a bereaved husband killing said genocidal maniac. Her own unwillingness to 'neutralise' Tim Shaw back when he was a pathetic petty killer is what gave him the power to become a genocidal maniac. It's Chibnall's master plan: show up the contradictions in (what he believes is) pacifism until the audience is up in arms and ready to beg for every ep to end like Dinosaurs in a Spaceship! It's moustache-twirling villainy at its best!

Or, as one wag put it:

"Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and watch my morally weird finale!"


-t - Dec 13, 2018 4:10:39 am PST #1248 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

That's s surprisingly compelling theory


billytea - Dec 16, 2018 2:16:58 pm PST #1249 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Now this season of Doctor Who has finished, I thought I'd take a stab at ranking all the eps. Highly personal and no doubt idiosyncratic, of course.

1. It Takes You Away. I really enjoyed this one. I liked the move between the three settings (each with different rules), something that Doctor Who is particularly well suited for. I thought that Whittaker's Doctor worked better in this ep than any other - she showed how a 'nice' Doctor could still be effective.

2. Kerblam! Lots to enjoy here. Cute/creepy robots, good tension and action, the sort of social satire Doctor Who can tackle. Some of the resolution was a hot mess, but at least it was a fun ride. Oh, and bubble wrap!

3. Demons of the Punjab. A solid historical. A period of history not so well known and worth highlighting. The aliens were particularly fitting for an ep that aired on Remembrance Day. Emotionally, not hugely complex or surprising, but effective.

4. Rosa. It was actually very well done, and got a lot of things right. Especially relieved that Rosa Parks kept ownership of her own actions and decisions. But there are some serious flaws, which in some ways run deeper here than in eps I rate lower. Ultimately it's not the kind of historical Doctor Who can really do.

5. The Witchfinders. Not a spectacular ep, but Alan Cumming's plummy King James I was a joy, and it was nice to see the Doctor taking decisive action.

6. The Tsuranga Conundrum. Solid midrange ep; not a lot to distinguish it in either direction.

7. The Woman Who Fell to Earth. Decent intro to the new Doctor and TARDIS crew. But the plot was fairly dull and the dialogue a bit dire. With hindsight, the season's major failings were on display from here on. (Plus, disappointing that they fridged the most interesting supporting character.)

8. The Ghost Monument. The more time I've had to think about it, the less I find I like it. Didn't feel terribly dramatic, didn't even feel much like a race. You should be able to do more with the idea of the TARDIS as a ghost monument than just use it as an excuse for the Doctor to give up for half a minute. Ultimately it's... fine, just there's not a lot to entice into a rewatch.

9. Arachnids of the UK. This one just rubbed me the wrong way. The lack of even an attempt to stop Ed Sheeran, the strange priorities concerning the spiders' fate, the trivialising references to Trump. A shame; the first act had some good material.

10. The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos. I may well be holding this to a higher standard as the season finale. It was just dull. I never felt any real tension, every problem had a pedestrian solution, hooks never went anywhere. Tim Shaw remained an unexciting villain (who lost an armed stand-off with Graham, I mean how was he ever a leadership contender for a warrior people in the first place?). The Doctor's position on killing remained morally incoherent and undercut by the ep itself. The worst season finale since at least Trial of a Time Lord in 1986.

I am not particularly surprised to observe that I've rated every story written by Chibnall below every story written by someone else. Looking at the average ratings, I rank this whole season to be 28th out of the 38 seasons of Doctor Who so far. That feels about right.


Dana - Dec 16, 2018 6:18:14 pm PST #1250 of 2020
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I thought the Elsewords character interactions with fun, with some astonishing plot stupidity required to make things happen. There's a button you can push at Arkham Asylum that lets all of the baddies out? One button?

I also find Ruby Rose...not very good, so. I hate to not support a lesbian superhero, though.


DXMachina - Dec 17, 2018 6:49:14 am PST #1251 of 2020
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

There were some great bits in Elseworlds:

The Smallville theme playing over the scene of the farm in Kansas (and the very same location as in Smallville).

The black Superman suit.

Actually, everything about Clark and Lois was great, and I want to see that show. Plus the nod to "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex."

John Wesley Shipp as the 1990 version (Earth-90) of the Flash.

The lead in to Infinite Crisis, and the possible contraction of the multi-verse.

On the other hand:

I didn't like any of the Batwoman stuff. I don't know the current iteration of the character in the comics at all, so I can't tell how close Ruby Rose's version is, but if you're going to give me me a dour hero and a vicious Gotham, just give me Bruce. We already went down this road with Oliver and Starling City.

The Monitor seems awfully stupid for an almighty being. His plan was worse than one of Barry's plans, and then he doubled down on Deegan after he failed the first time.

Showing all of the names in Arkham, and then giving us interchangeable ciphers when they break out (apart from Psycho Pirate).

Also how did Cisco get hit full on by a truck and survive with nary an apparent scratch?