Dawn: I feel safe with you. Spike: Take that back!

'First Date'


Boxed Set, Vol. VI: I am not a number, I am a free thread!

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Jessica - Dec 11, 2018 10:18:36 am PST #1232 of 2020
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

I am heartened by the ratings because I was really worried (from BTS gossip about what a disaster Chibnall was as showrunner) that the show wouldn't do well this year and the BBC leadership would go "Well I guess we shouldn't have made the Doctor a lady!" So in that sense, YAY.

But in another sense, NOT YAY because BLEARGH, Auntie Beeb, please make the show better next year do not take these numbers as a cue to keep making boring television.


billytea - Dec 11, 2018 2:38:50 pm PST #1233 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I am heartened by the ratings because I was really worried (from BTS gossip about what a disaster Chibnall was as showrunner) that the show wouldn't do well this year and the BBC leadership would go "Well I guess we shouldn't have made the Doctor a lady!" So in that sense, YAY.

But in another sense, NOT YAY because BLEARGH, Auntie Beeb, please make the show better next year do not take these numbers as a cue to keep making boring television.

I am in total agreement with all of this! There are rumours that Chris Chibnall is only going to stick around for one more season, and I kind of hope that's true. (Though I don't know who might be available to take it on.)


billytea - Dec 11, 2018 2:50:59 pm PST #1234 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I find I have very little to say about this finale. (I will, however, note that the Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos didn't actually include a battle.) So instead I've gone picking up quotes from other people. A selection:

Concerning the ep's rather stunted understanding of morality (and pacifism):

"Planetary genocide... Tim Shaw, I didn't like you before but now... Make them stop, you're breaking every known law in the universe." I mean, the Doctor's probably talking about, like, physics laws here. But I do want a stronger reaction to 'planetary genocide' than "it's illegal!".

"You're a genocidal monster, but killing's wrong, so..." (ineffectual shrug)

What happens when you stop to think about the Ux for too long:

"Our religion is all about doubt," say the Ux, immediately worshipping a random alien for three millennia.

[Tim Shaw's evil plot involved] "hoodwinking a two-person species apparently originating on three planets."

And then there's this bit of praise:

I have to say that amongst all the poorly-lit mediocrity lurked a moment of true genius.

Two groups of robots, one either side of our heroes
They all go to shoot
Out heroes duck
The robots therefore all shoot each other

That actually happened last night, I just want to celebrate that fact.

The genius is not that it happened, but that Chris Chibnall and Jamie Childs obviously thought people would be impressed. And that's courage I find a little bit humbling

And finally, this totally obscure reference made me laugh. A lot.

The finale was so dull, I was actually coming up with origin stories for The Valeyard.


Pix - Dec 11, 2018 4:41:53 pm PST #1235 of 2020
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

I am heartened by the ratings because I was really worried (from BTS gossip about what a disaster Chibnall was as showrunner) that the show wouldn't do well this year and the BBC leadership would go "Well I guess we shouldn't have made the Doctor a lady!" So in that sense, YAY.

But in another sense, NOT YAY because BLEARGH, Auntie Beeb, please make the show better next year do not take these numbers as a cue to keep making boring television.

Jessica is me.


Matt the Bruins fan - Dec 11, 2018 5:07:22 pm PST #1236 of 2020
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

If Chibnall doesn't stick around as showrunner past next year, I hope Jodie Whitaker can find it in her heart to stay in the role with new management. She's been delightful in the role, and my impression is that the majority of the viewership shares my opinion of her.


billytea - Dec 11, 2018 6:53:02 pm PST #1237 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

If Chibnall doesn't stick around as showrunner past next year, I hope Jodie Whitaker can find it in her heart to stay in the role with new management. She's been delightful in the role, and my impression is that the majority of the viewership shares my opinion of her.

Agree with this too. I particularly like some of the expressions she comes out with. (Favourite: in Rosa, the face she pulls when Graham puts his arm around her while they're pretending to be a couple.)


billytea - Dec 11, 2018 6:57:56 pm PST #1238 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

So I lied before. I do have a few thoughts about the finale, which (of course) have to do with past episodes. Let's start with Tim Shaw's planet collection. (But if you ring in the next 15 minutes, we'll throw in this set of eight asteroids for free!) There's nothing new under the sun and all that; for instance, that scene where Graham and Ryan duck while surrounded by sniperbots which then shoot one another: I can think of at least four previous adventures that pulled some version of that trick.

And they've done the planets in stasis notion before as well, back in 1978, in an adventure called The Pirate Planet. This ep's reputation has, I think, improved in the intervening years. The plot is actually very clever and is quite funny to boot. Despite this, it was one of only five adventures not to get novelised at the time. The reason: the BBC couldn't afford the scriptwriter's fee to adapt it. It was one of three stories written for Doctor Who by Douglas Adams.

Before The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was produced, Douglas Adams was involved in Doctor Who. He was script editor for a year, and wrote three scripts for the show. One, Shada, was cancelled after a strike stopped production halfway through. (It was released last year with the addition of some animated sequences.) Another, City of Death, is regarded by many (including me) as one of the greatest adventures ever. It has an ingenious plot, a brilliant Part 2 cliffhanger, a fantastic guest cast (Julian Glover and Catherine Schell), Tom Baker and Lalla Ward in love in Paris, and some of the funniest scenes the show's ever done. Oh, and a cameo by John Cleese and Eleanor Bron. [link] Seriously, if you get the chance, watch this adventure.

Then there's The Pirate Planet. It's a very clever notion. The Captain (a space pirate, complete with robot parrot), has engineered an entire planet to teleport around the galaxy. It's completely hollow; he uses it to engulf other planets and strip them of their mineral wealth (killing the entire population in the process, if it's inhabited). The Captain then compresses the planet's remains to the size of a basketball and holds it in a stasis field. He's done this to 22 planets so far.

Tim Shaw, of course, is doing much the same thing. Compare the dialogue between the two adventures when the Doctor finds out. The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos:

"Planetary genocide... Tim Shaw, I didn't like you before but now... Make them stop, you're breaking every known law in the universe."

And The Pirate Planet:

Captain: "The whole system is so perfectly aligned by the most exquisite exercise in gravitational geometry that every system is balanced out within itself. Which is why we can stand next to billions of tons of super- compressed matter and not even be aware of it. With each new planet I acquire, the forces are realigned but the system remains stable."
The Doctor: "Then it's the most brilliant piece of astro-gravitational engineering I've ever seen. The concept is simply staggering... Pointless, but staggering."
Captain: "I'm gratified that you appreciate it."
The Doctor: "Appreciate it? Appreciate it! You commit mass destruction and murder on a scale that's almost inconceivable, and you ask me to appreciate it?! Just because you happen to have made a brilliantly-conceived toy out of the mummified remains of planets!"
Captain: "Devilstorms, Doctor! It is not a toy!"
The Doctor: "Then WHAT'S IT FOR?! Huh? What are you doing? What could possibly be worth all this?"

The answer is so the Captain can escape his current enslavement by his nurse, but that's not important here. What is important is that this is genocide on a massive scale. In one script, the Doctor understands this. In the other, it sounds like she's considering blocking him on Facebook. I would posit that this is a problem for a series that tends to rely heavily on the Doctor carrying moral authority, a notion I'd like to explore further in a future post.


sj - Dec 12, 2018 4:11:55 am PST #1239 of 2020
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Is anyone watching NIghtflyer? I'm a few episodes in, and it's pretty interesting so far.


-t - Dec 12, 2018 5:05:42 am PST #1240 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

This season of Doctor Who has come across as if it's heard of morality and thinks it's a good idea but, like, what is it, really?


-t - Dec 12, 2018 5:10:08 am PST #1241 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Thanks for the reminder, sj, I had meant to give that a try but it has been sneaking past me.