And what's the fun in becoming an immortal demon if you're not regular, am I right?

The Mayor ,'End of Days'


Boxed Set, Vol. VI: I am not a number, I am a free thread!

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


billytea - Dec 16, 2018 2:16:58 pm PST #1249 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Now this season of Doctor Who has finished, I thought I'd take a stab at ranking all the eps. Highly personal and no doubt idiosyncratic, of course.

1. It Takes You Away. I really enjoyed this one. I liked the move between the three settings (each with different rules), something that Doctor Who is particularly well suited for. I thought that Whittaker's Doctor worked better in this ep than any other - she showed how a 'nice' Doctor could still be effective.

2. Kerblam! Lots to enjoy here. Cute/creepy robots, good tension and action, the sort of social satire Doctor Who can tackle. Some of the resolution was a hot mess, but at least it was a fun ride. Oh, and bubble wrap!

3. Demons of the Punjab. A solid historical. A period of history not so well known and worth highlighting. The aliens were particularly fitting for an ep that aired on Remembrance Day. Emotionally, not hugely complex or surprising, but effective.

4. Rosa. It was actually very well done, and got a lot of things right. Especially relieved that Rosa Parks kept ownership of her own actions and decisions. But there are some serious flaws, which in some ways run deeper here than in eps I rate lower. Ultimately it's not the kind of historical Doctor Who can really do.

5. The Witchfinders. Not a spectacular ep, but Alan Cumming's plummy King James I was a joy, and it was nice to see the Doctor taking decisive action.

6. The Tsuranga Conundrum. Solid midrange ep; not a lot to distinguish it in either direction.

7. The Woman Who Fell to Earth. Decent intro to the new Doctor and TARDIS crew. But the plot was fairly dull and the dialogue a bit dire. With hindsight, the season's major failings were on display from here on. (Plus, disappointing that they fridged the most interesting supporting character.)

8. The Ghost Monument. The more time I've had to think about it, the less I find I like it. Didn't feel terribly dramatic, didn't even feel much like a race. You should be able to do more with the idea of the TARDIS as a ghost monument than just use it as an excuse for the Doctor to give up for half a minute. Ultimately it's... fine, just there's not a lot to entice into a rewatch.

9. Arachnids of the UK. This one just rubbed me the wrong way. The lack of even an attempt to stop Ed Sheeran, the strange priorities concerning the spiders' fate, the trivialising references to Trump. A shame; the first act had some good material.

10. The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos. I may well be holding this to a higher standard as the season finale. It was just dull. I never felt any real tension, every problem had a pedestrian solution, hooks never went anywhere. Tim Shaw remained an unexciting villain (who lost an armed stand-off with Graham, I mean how was he ever a leadership contender for a warrior people in the first place?). The Doctor's position on killing remained morally incoherent and undercut by the ep itself. The worst season finale since at least Trial of a Time Lord in 1986.

I am not particularly surprised to observe that I've rated every story written by Chibnall below every story written by someone else. Looking at the average ratings, I rank this whole season to be 28th out of the 38 seasons of Doctor Who so far. That feels about right.


Dana - Dec 16, 2018 6:18:14 pm PST #1250 of 2020
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I thought the Elsewords character interactions with fun, with some astonishing plot stupidity required to make things happen. There's a button you can push at Arkham Asylum that lets all of the baddies out? One button?

I also find Ruby Rose...not very good, so. I hate to not support a lesbian superhero, though.


DXMachina - Dec 17, 2018 6:49:14 am PST #1251 of 2020
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

There were some great bits in Elseworlds:

The Smallville theme playing over the scene of the farm in Kansas (and the very same location as in Smallville).

The black Superman suit.

Actually, everything about Clark and Lois was great, and I want to see that show. Plus the nod to "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex."

John Wesley Shipp as the 1990 version (Earth-90) of the Flash.

The lead in to Infinite Crisis, and the possible contraction of the multi-verse.

On the other hand:

I didn't like any of the Batwoman stuff. I don't know the current iteration of the character in the comics at all, so I can't tell how close Ruby Rose's version is, but if you're going to give me me a dour hero and a vicious Gotham, just give me Bruce. We already went down this road with Oliver and Starling City.

The Monitor seems awfully stupid for an almighty being. His plan was worse than one of Barry's plans, and then he doubled down on Deegan after he failed the first time.

Showing all of the names in Arkham, and then giving us interchangeable ciphers when they break out (apart from Psycho Pirate).

Also how did Cisco get hit full on by a truck and survive with nary an apparent scratch?


Tom Scola - Dec 17, 2018 6:55:15 am PST #1252 of 2020
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500

I was thinking of watching Elseworlds, but then I saw Spider-Verse, a multiverse story with really, really tight, impeccable plotting, and I realized that Elseworlds would only leave me disappointed.


Steph L. - Dec 17, 2018 7:01:21 am PST #1253 of 2020
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Ha! I'd better watch Elseworlds before I see Spider-Verse.


-t - Dec 17, 2018 7:55:18 am PST #1254 of 2020
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Yup, better make that my plan.


Steph L. - Dec 18, 2018 5:00:51 pm PST #1255 of 2020
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Okay, the first Elseworlds episode is delightful. And I squeed at the Smallville theme and then had to explain it to Tim. And now I just want to watch Smallville.


Steph L. - Dec 19, 2018 8:08:15 am PST #1256 of 2020
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

And the second Elseworlds episode was a lot of fun, too. Gotham looks gorgeous (I'm a sucker for all that art deco architecture), and Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin are having way too much fun in each others' roles.

I don't understand why Barry and Oliver would hallucinate each other's fears, though, when they still have their own memories. Since Malcolm and Thawne showed up right before a commercial break, I was honestly expecting to come back from the break and see Barry and Oliver tell their respective hallucinations, "You've got the wrong guy," and walk away.


Scrappy - Dec 19, 2018 8:51:42 am PST #1257 of 2020
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

Me, too, Tep! I really loved the banter in the three eps, I have to say. Barry's delight when he shoots Oliver in the back with the remote control arrows was hilarious.


Steph L. - Dec 19, 2018 9:19:12 am PST #1258 of 2020
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Barry's delight when

That was EXCELLENT.

I just finished the last epsiode, and Tyler Hoechlin had way too much fun playing Deegan/evil Superman.

I want to know what deal Oliver made with the Monitor. I guess they're going to save that for Crisis on Infinite Earths.