I saw the pilot so long ago the details are fuzzy (also the show wasn't that good) but I think Hayes' character was closeted and married, but is now out and divorced.
A year and a half ago, I could have eviscerated him with my thoughts. Now I can barely hurt his feelings. Things used to be so much simpler.
Anya ,'Dirty Girls'
Natter 72: We Were Unprepared for This
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Jessica - Sep 19, 2013 5:40:31 am PDT #5708 of 30000
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
§ ita § - Sep 19, 2013 7:25:51 am PDT #5709 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
So the three male-female pairs and the one "NO GUY HUGGING!" pair doesn't reinforce any subtext for anyone else? I was trying to argue progress with my sister, and she was all "Where? Since Will and Grace, where? Significant screen time improvement for M/M erotic affection and sex and casual platonic intimacy?"
She is following the gay male couple on Days, and thinks it's near par, but not on it, but challenged me to demonstrate prime time TV was similar. I can point at gay couples, but not on shows I watch, so I can't say how prevalent they are, how much affection and sexuality they get to express within the template set by the straight couples.
bon bon - Sep 19, 2013 7:33:09 am PDT #5710 of 30000
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.
ita, those are four separate shows! I thought you were saying it was all from the Hayes show.
§ ita § - Sep 19, 2013 7:44:24 am PDT #5711 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
No, not at all--a sitcom lineup ad. Just a general TV message of "guys hugging is icky and funny, AMIRITE??! Men and women hugging is normal!" ZERO plot details. All I could take from the billboard was subtext (fuck, I didn't even realise it was Parks and Rec up there).
msbelle - Sep 19, 2013 7:50:08 am PDT #5712 of 30000
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb
Modern Family has a gay couple.
Jesse - Sep 19, 2013 7:53:35 am PDT #5713 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.
Just a general TV message of "guys hugging is icky and funny, AMIRITE??! Men and women hugging is normal!"
Yes, I think that is still true.
You guys, I have to confess to you so I don't confess to my coworkers: My follow-up dentist appointment (to get the new crown) is only a half-hour, so I made the appointment for 9:30 instead of 8:30. Woo hoo, sleeping late! Or, more likely, screwing around longer in the morning...
bon bon - Sep 19, 2013 8:02:03 am PDT #5714 of 30000
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.
It doesn't remotely look homophobic to me.
§ ita § - Sep 19, 2013 8:03:47 am PDT #5715 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Modern Family has a gay couple.
Yes, but do they have an equivalent gay couple? Does the couple get as much coupleness as the straight ones? I think by 2005 shows should know they can have gay couples without taking a hit--even get a bump from it. But neutered gay couples are hardly surprising.
§ ita § - Sep 19, 2013 8:04:38 am PDT #5716 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
It doesn't remotely look homophobic to me.
Zero heteronormative reinforcement, zero ditching gay cooties? I can't convince my sister of any sort of parity in its face, though.
Amy - Sep 19, 2013 8:06:14 am PDT #5717 of 30000
Because books.
Yes, but do they have an equivalent gay couple?
The Modern Family gay couple gets lots of screen time, and story lines. They've adopted a kid (and another? I only watch sometimes), etc.