Oh, and now that I've mentioned Jamaica, my father is answering every question addressed to him with, "We be jammin', mon." I also asked them if they've ever been to Jamaica, and my mother said, "Of course we have," but then thought about it and realized that they've been to a whole bunch of other islands, but never Jamaica.

I think by any reasonable definition Jamaica is third world. (The political definition fell by the wayside even before the fall of the SU.) But people's stereotypes are different from reality. So Jamaica is third world, but its public stereotype is not - possibly in part due to the success of Jamaica's tourist board. And not being in a civil war. And all sorts of silly stuff like Angelina Jolie not adapting an adorable baby from there. People who base not thinking Jamaica is third world on that are wrong, but that is where it comes from.

Well, at one point China would have been considered second or third world. But now? How would you classify it?

In spite of being a major power, still third world. Look at per capita income and poverty rate. China is an economic superpower because with the number of people it has, even a low per capita income equals a lot. But that per capita income is lower than a lot of nations that are acknowledged to be third world. These days, "Global South" and "Global North" are more accepted as terms for this. But they are just as problematic. Many nations that are part of the "Global South" are north of the equator. Many nations that are part of the "Global North" are south of the equator.

Those are all reasons I think make any of those continuums almost useless. Even when we used to think of the world as developed and less developed nations....that all goes to shit with China.

Those are all reasons I think make any of those continuums almost useless. Even when we used to think of the world as developed and less developed nations....that all goes to shit with China.

China's per capita income is only slightly more per year than Jamaica's. In fact in sorted GDP lists, China is immediately above Jamaica.

I spent a fair amount of time in Jamaica as a child and have been back several times as an adult and saw such endemic poverty and truly horrifying living conditions that I always, always, felt guilty about being there on vacation and not to help. Just because Sally Struthers doesn't have telethons for the Jamaican poor doesn't mean that isn't the reality. And I agree that in every country, third world included, there are class divides. I haven't been anywhere where I saw that more starkly than Jamaica.

OK, well a simple division might be rich and poor. In which case China would be classified as poor. A lot what makes China a "hard case" is that admitting it is a poor nation makes China bashing a bit harder. (Not impossible since even poor nations have responsibilities - not that the U.S. exactly lives up to all its responsibilities.)

China's per capita income is only slightly more per year than Jamaica's. In fact in sorted GDP lists, China is immediately above Jamaica.

True, but this masks great regional disparity. Places like Shanghai have living standards on a par with Latin America, while more rural areas are subject to severe poverty. (This is a source of growing tension within China - the outrage sparked when the haves are seen to be riding roughshod over the have-nots spreads rapidly.)

A lot what makes China a "hard case" is that admitting it is a poor nation makes China bashing a bit harder.

I think it's more complicated than that. China is poor per capita (though not uniformly across the country), but as you note it is still an economic powerhouse (and a growing military one). It has a great impact on the rest of the world, and the rest of the world has every right to be critical of how it uses that power. Poor countries do have responsibilities; so do superpowers, and China is both. (Likewise, both poor countries and superpowers have rights and legitimate interests. Most of what makes China a hard case is that untangling its complex and sometimes contradictory nature is genuinely hard. It isn't helped by the fact that frankly, China isn't that skillful at international diplomacy.)