You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


Natter 70: Hookers and Blow  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


flea - Jun 26, 2012 9:28:35 am PDT #11253 of 30001
information libertarian

Casper went through a phase where she wrote me little hate mash notes, at about 5. My favorite was "you are a big fat hors[e]". The spelling was usually so adorable it was hard to be upset by them.

Dillo has a totally different way of relating. He's much more likely to say "everybody hates me" than "I hate you." Honestly, the latter is a lot easier to deal with as a parent.


msbelle - Jun 26, 2012 9:31:48 am PDT #11254 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

I am sure I told my parents I hated them, more than once. I know I wrote a school paper in elementary school about how John Denver and Olivia Newton-John would be my preferred parents. But I never doubted they loved me or would take care of me, and they never made me feel like I should comfort them or hold it together because they couldn't. They saved all that up for now.


tommyrot - Jun 26, 2012 9:32:11 am PDT #11255 of 30001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

I never said "I hate you" to either parent. My mom I was never mad at, and my I feared my dad too much to say "I hate you." If I ever lost my temper near my dad he would get so angry he scared the shit out of me.

To this day I get extremely uncomfortable just being around an angry person (even if they're not angry at me).


Glamcookie - Jun 26, 2012 9:34:07 am PDT #11256 of 30001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

It's exhausting parenting your parent from a relatively early age, even when you don't realize that's the position you've been manipulated into. It's just normal, for you.

Oh yeah. This was definitely my experience as well. My parents were kids when I was born (Mom was 18, Dad was 19). Of course, I didn't realize any of this until I was in my early 20s and then I got really REALLY pissed off. Though, in typical "kid parenting parent" form, I never let them know I was pissed. I just worked through it myself as always.


Atropa - Jun 26, 2012 9:34:31 am PDT #11257 of 30001
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

they never made me feel like I should comfort them or hold it together because they couldn't.

I know that my mom never meant to make me feel like that. And looking back, I can tell that my mom had some pretty serious depression and anxiety issues that never went addressed. I just have to learn that I don't have to hold everything together all the time. I used to joke that Pete was the one with all the control issues in our relationship. Ha. At least I know better now.

But hey! My therapist emailed me back with an appointment opening, and one of my babygoths on Tumblr sent me a gift card to my favorite cupcake shop! So the day is looking up.


erikaj - Jun 26, 2012 9:34:34 am PDT #11258 of 30001
"already on the kiss-cam with Karl Marx"-

I think I probably said it, before the divorce, when it wasn't a big deal And after the divorce, when everything was a big deal and I ended up in counseling for it. (My brother should have gone, too, but he "seemed fine" at the time. I...don't come from a long line of psychics, let's just say that. But even my dad couldn't ignore me, aged twelve, at the top of my lungs saying that I wished they both would die, catching them fighting for the eleven-millionth time. But it was good...my therapist was disabled. Talking about that helped more, maybe. It was kind of a bigger secret...not the fact of it, but all the feels.


Steph L. - Jun 26, 2012 9:37:22 am PDT #11259 of 30001
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Still finding it incredibly difficult, decades later, to express the anger I have towards my parents, even alone with my analyst. It’s THE issue that’s holding me back in therapy.

Do you feel like you're not allowed to be angry at them? Because I do. I feel like I'm not allowed to have any non-pre-approved feeling, actually. (Well, I worked through a good deal of that, and now if my mom has a problem with my non-pre-approved feeling, I just exercise my right to own my own shit and hang up or leave, or whatever. And then I feel terrible and eat 100 cakes or something.)

To this day I get extremely uncomfortable just being around an angry person (even if they're not angry at me).

I am totally like this.


erikaj - Jun 26, 2012 9:37:40 am PDT #11260 of 30001
"already on the kiss-cam with Karl Marx"-

One of the rare breaks I did get is that they didn't die during the time I was thinking about it. I might have ended up crip!Parker, if so.


Amy - Jun 26, 2012 9:40:19 am PDT #11261 of 30001
Because books.

I just have to learn that I don't have to hold everything together all the time.

Tell me the secret when you do, huh?

I discussed the ACOA thing last week with my therapist, and he just nodded, yeah, you didn't know that? Uh, thanks. I don't know if kids whose parents actually were alcoholics or addicts feel this way, but it was and still is incredibly hard for me to look at anything my parents did as wrong (even unintentionally) because my mom was SICK. And you don't blame sick people.


§ ita § - Jun 26, 2012 9:47:48 am PDT #11262 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

is your love for them conditional?

Absolutely. My love for them is a response, and it could change depending on what I'm responding to.

If my mother started beating my father, for instance, or any number of "Oh, no you didn't...that's not how grownups act." things, there would definitely be a re-evaluation.

I'll never not be grateful for the many good things they've done for me, and I'm not saying it wouldn't be a messy and complicated process if they did something I couldn't forgive. But there are things I can't forgive.

I'm not very good at "but they're family" thing. I've seen relatives be so completely cruel and damaging to each other (including to me, and I sorely hope never by me--it's certainly something I'd like to address if I ever provoked it, and earn back the good regard of whoever I hurt. Well, except for the couple of stank-assed bitches in the family. I'm good with cutting them out of my life. They did shit I'm not standing around to tolerate, so we're done.)