You know, I just... I woke up, and I looked in the mirror, and I thought, hey, what's with all the sin? I need to change. I'm... I'm dirty. I'm, I'm bad with the... sex and the envy and that, that loud music us kids listen to nowadays.

Buffy ,'Lessons'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


flea - Oct 26, 2011 9:29:10 am PDT #3236 of 30001
information libertarian

I keep trying to give my (single) sister the kids of things people get for wedding presents (dishes, etc.) and she keeps saying, "But why do I need more than 3 plates?" [ETA: KINDS of things. My sister likes my kids, but would not have them as a gift, I am pretty sure.]

In the rant about children as lifestyle choice, other things included as lifestyle choices were the purchase of an SUV. Later (in her apology) she included the ability to take a tax deduction for a boat (you can get the mortgage interest deducted if you claim it as a second residence, but it has to have a bathroom - good to know, I guess?). So, comparing having children to buying vehicles kind of strikes me the wrong way.

And I definitely agree that a lot of people consider that having children is a choice nowadays, which it clearly is not really, on either the having or not having sides, for a lot of people.


tommyrot - Oct 26, 2011 9:36:44 am PDT #3237 of 30001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Oof. Finally caught up. Happy belated birthdays for birthday folks, and hugs for folks who need 'em.


Jessica - Oct 26, 2011 9:48:29 am PDT #3238 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

So, comparing having children to buying vehicles kind of strikes me the wrong way.

This, absolutely. For so many reasons.


meara - Oct 26, 2011 9:53:04 am PDT #3239 of 30001

Hey, has anyone else read the cover story of this month's Atlantic? So, so good. And made me feel a lot less conspicuous about being never married at 42.

Ooh, link?

A friend of mine went to buy a new car the other day, and ended up buying two. TOTALLY like having children...in that he's a gay man who used to be a Mormon who has five of them? Oops?


Allyson - Oct 26, 2011 9:53:38 am PDT #3240 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Your friend is choosing shitty metaphors for a kind of shitty idea. I'm guessing that for most of the humans in her sphere, having children was a choice, and it's hard to deal with the fact that they're being rewarded in some way for that choice. I want to be rewarded, too!

I can make the case for comparing having a child to a luxury item. But I like kids, and sometimes long to be a parent. But it's a careful comparison to make. You don't own children, you're raising a human being. The metaphor can only sustain itself for a tiny part of an enormous idea. Kids are like luxury items in that while I long for one, I can't afford to support one, but that's kind of where the metaphor ends.


flea - Oct 26, 2011 9:53:47 am PDT #3241 of 30001
information libertarian

I think there is a problematic trend in some circles to see a child as a consumer item. You see that in the tabloids, which treat (some) celebrity kids as, like, an accessory. (It may be that some celebrities treat them that way.)


Allyson - Oct 26, 2011 9:55:09 am PDT #3242 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Hey, has anyone else read the cover story of this month's Atlantic? So, so good.

Really? It rubbed me the wrong way.


flea - Oct 26, 2011 9:55:10 am PDT #3243 of 30001
information libertarian

Heh, I xposted with Allyson.

I refuse to consider someone/thing whose ass I have had to wipe for 5 years and counting a luxury item!


javachik - Oct 26, 2011 9:57:19 am PDT #3244 of 30001
Our wings are not tired.

In what way, Allyson?

meara, [link]

I liked the article because it helped me dispel some of my (own) myths about coupledom and marriedom. And to me, that was very helpful. I really need to get out of the "why won't anyone ever marry me" mindset. It's not healthy and it's getting in my way. Dating someone seriously for four years, again with it ending the way it did really hurt me. A year ago I was convinced that I was going to Paris at Thanksgiving to finally be proposed to. Everything pointed to it. It took me 6 months of denial and then acceptance to to finally stop being angry about it. Actually, my twinset of surgeries in the Spring in a bizarre way helped me get over the anger and disappointment. Never thought I'd be happy to have surgery, but there you have it. It gave me something else to obsess about right when I needed it.


Jessica - Oct 26, 2011 10:00:59 am PDT #3245 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

I refuse to consider someone/thing whose ass I have had to wipe for 5 years and counting a luxury item!

I need this on a t-shirt.