Shir, I think it was just Buffistas doing what they do - offering relevant personal experiences as a way of sympathizing, empathizing, and showing how many different paths there are. For myself, I've sort of come through my crisis of faith to believing in *something*, but I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you should do as I do, and I didn't interpret what you said as exhorting everyone to abandon their faith and/or convert to Judaism.

Not to sound glib, or to denigrate your experience, but it can be comforting, in a way, to go through a crisis of faith. It's certainly not comfortable, but I think it demonstrates a mental acuity far, far too many people lack -- they accept too easily what other people tell them.

What is that old saw -- "The unexamined life is not worth living?" Well, an unexamined faith is, IMHO, like buying a pig in a poke. Grappling with what you believe is much, much harder, but generally you come out the other side with much more conviction in what you believe in. Sometimes, granted, there's no other side to come out of, and that loss of innocence can be truly awful. However, what you come up with can work out just as well.

I quite like the idea of a beneficent god who wants Good Things for the world, but I just don't know if it's true, and I'm ok with the ambiguity. I believe it's in some ways even better for there to be no Great Arbiter of Goodness, no reward or punishment, that people should try to do Good Things and act for the greater good because it's the ethical things to do -- do good for good's sake, not from fear or duty or the desire to appear good.

My twenties were definitely the time of parsing out my ideas, and I imagine I will be adding and subtracting to them until I drop dead. I wish you well, Shir, and I hope you can find a path that is right for you and brings you peace.

You know what I miss about having a job??

Having a copier to use for my own, personal, Scouting crap.

Signed,
Needs 200 copies of a flyer made. Have paper, need copier.

Maybe an email to the parents in the troop, Aims?

Oh it's a recruiting plyer for families that aren't in Girl Scouts yet.

do good for good's sake, not from fear or duty or the desire to appear good.

One of my favorite Angel quotes, from "Epiphany": If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

Oh it's a recruiting plyer for families that aren't in Girl Scouts yet.

But maybe one of the parents has access to a copier, and can make them for you?

Anyhow, didn't mean to make anyone feel that way. My question were strictly in a personal notion, not "this is what's best for all".

It may be a matter of English not being your mother tongue, that the subtleties of tone of the discussion were not as clear to you, but that was one of the most respectful, gentle "this is what I believe, and why/how I got to that point in faith/not faith" I have ever witnessed, even here where such discussion is always done in a disciplined way. It looked to me as though the primary motivation in those who communicated that, was to show you that there are many paths through such a crisis of faith, and no matter which path is yours or how lonely you feel now going through that path, in the end you will not be alone, because there will be Buffistas somewhere nearby. Near, if not in the exact tenets of belief (or lack of it), in the closeness of... oh, shit, I don't know where this is going. Just... we love you and want to ease you on your way.

I love you people too.

Which reminds me, that Drew post was causing me allergies as well.

do good for good's sake, not from fear or duty or the desire to appear good.

It's not that I did good from fear or duty. I did good (I hope!) not only for its own sake, but because there was an equilibrium in my world, and that made that good doing feels as the right thing to do - which pretty much also defined what was good and what was "selfish" or "bad". I was doing good because that was The Way I Wanted to live by. And everything was very clear. And now, when there is no "Way", I'm a little bit confused about the purpose of Life and All (not in depressive way - just in "without an GPS" way). Not because of motivation alone, but mostly because the question of What is Good? rises, and I don't have any convincing answer to it anymore.

What made that "crisis" and not a "process" is that I discovered it on Yom Kippur, out of all days. That was a blow below the belt, so to speak. I guess there was a process, but it just manifested itself on that specific day, due to the nature of it.

Ah, not a GPS. If you don't have a GPS, you look for a map. If no map, the sun. If no sun, the moss on trees. Or memory. Or a compass. Or ask someone.

The analogy I guess I'm going for is this: just because the high-tech, precision equipment isn't at your fingertips, you can try other ways to find your way. I'm not necessarily suggesting other religions, mind, although if that's your pleasure, fabu (and I enjoy examining differing belief systems, because there is always something of beauty and goodness that is contained in them.) But you can look to people whose lives you admire, or look in yourself to find the things you believe to be important. You can look in science, in art, in philanthropy, in humor, or music, or clog-dancing Irish misanthropes -- whatever!

You will find what is good, I promise. You already know most of it, I bet. And can there not be something of great good and assurance that come from this moment of pain and doubt? Growth rarely comes without growing pains -- you're getting into the deep questions of what it means, to you, Shir, to be Good, and lifting the heavy shit causes some muscle strain. But you will be a better person for it than if you had turned away from a deeper examination of your faith, as painful as it is.

Good lord, I'm pedantic! Anyway, if there be a god, I think that contemplation on what it is to be a good, decent, caring person, and trying to achieve that would bring him/her/it nothing but pleasure, FWIW, doll.