Oh it's a recruiting plyer for families that aren't in Girl Scouts yet.

do good for good's sake, not from fear or duty or the desire to appear good.

One of my favorite Angel quotes, from "Epiphany": If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

Oh it's a recruiting plyer for families that aren't in Girl Scouts yet.

But maybe one of the parents has access to a copier, and can make them for you?

Anyhow, didn't mean to make anyone feel that way. My question were strictly in a personal notion, not "this is what's best for all".

It may be a matter of English not being your mother tongue, that the subtleties of tone of the discussion were not as clear to you, but that was one of the most respectful, gentle "this is what I believe, and why/how I got to that point in faith/not faith" I have ever witnessed, even here where such discussion is always done in a disciplined way. It looked to me as though the primary motivation in those who communicated that, was to show you that there are many paths through such a crisis of faith, and no matter which path is yours or how lonely you feel now going through that path, in the end you will not be alone, because there will be Buffistas somewhere nearby. Near, if not in the exact tenets of belief (or lack of it), in the closeness of... oh, shit, I don't know where this is going. Just... we love you and want to ease you on your way.

I love you people too.

Which reminds me, that Drew post was causing me allergies as well.

do good for good's sake, not from fear or duty or the desire to appear good.

It's not that I did good from fear or duty. I did good (I hope!) not only for its own sake, but because there was an equilibrium in my world, and that made that good doing feels as the right thing to do - which pretty much also defined what was good and what was "selfish" or "bad". I was doing good because that was The Way I Wanted to live by. And everything was very clear. And now, when there is no "Way", I'm a little bit confused about the purpose of Life and All (not in depressive way - just in "without an GPS" way). Not because of motivation alone, but mostly because the question of What is Good? rises, and I don't have any convincing answer to it anymore.

What made that "crisis" and not a "process" is that I discovered it on Yom Kippur, out of all days. That was a blow below the belt, so to speak. I guess there was a process, but it just manifested itself on that specific day, due to the nature of it.

Ah, not a GPS. If you don't have a GPS, you look for a map. If no map, the sun. If no sun, the moss on trees. Or memory. Or a compass. Or ask someone.

The analogy I guess I'm going for is this: just because the high-tech, precision equipment isn't at your fingertips, you can try other ways to find your way. I'm not necessarily suggesting other religions, mind, although if that's your pleasure, fabu (and I enjoy examining differing belief systems, because there is always something of beauty and goodness that is contained in them.) But you can look to people whose lives you admire, or look in yourself to find the things you believe to be important. You can look in science, in art, in philanthropy, in humor, or music, or clog-dancing Irish misanthropes -- whatever!

You will find what is good, I promise. You already know most of it, I bet. And can there not be something of great good and assurance that come from this moment of pain and doubt? Growth rarely comes without growing pains -- you're getting into the deep questions of what it means, to you, Shir, to be Good, and lifting the heavy shit causes some muscle strain. But you will be a better person for it than if you had turned away from a deeper examination of your faith, as painful as it is.

Good lord, I'm pedantic! Anyway, if there be a god, I think that contemplation on what it is to be a good, decent, caring person, and trying to achieve that would bring him/her/it nothing but pleasure, FWIW, doll.

What everybody said. You may end up with a more mature version of your current faith, or with a different faith or find that you can live fine without what most consider to be faith. But you will end up somewhere you will be happy with.

Thank you, Erin, so much. I really appreciate your advice.

And yes, I think there are at least two levels of goods on which I have a pretty good stand in: my taste in music, and academic arguments. I can feel what's "good" there.

I remember reading, long time ago in a forgotten book, about a woman who went to her teacher saying that she'd lost her love for Krishna. The teacher asked her what she did love. She said she loved her little nephew more than life. The teacher said, In your love of your nephew you will find Krishna.

Anyway, I think that, if God is love/a loving creator, whatever you love can lead you to him.

Ok, in shallow news, I am now calling the doctor to beg, plead, wail (nicely) for The Sleep Drug That Works.

Wish me luck!

ETA: Aaaand, after waiting all weekend to make this call, I leave a voice mail. Oh. Yay.