Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.

Mal ,'Serenity'


Natter 65: Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, pandas, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Fred Pete - May 03, 2010 9:50:52 am PDT #27055 of 30001
Ann, that's a ferret.

because crossing a border so you can get a job and feed your family is exctly like, oh, say, planting a car bomb in the middle of Times Square

Part of the problem is that illegal immigrants cross the border for many reasons. Crossing for employment reasons, economic opportunity, and the like certainly doesn't deserve to be labeled as terrorism.

But at the same time, a subset of people cross the border for more sinister reasons. I've heard Phoenix described as the Kidnapping Capital of America. Mexican organized crime rings cross the border and kidnap people for ransom. I'm not sure that qualifies as terrorism, either, at least not using a strict definition. But it's legitimate to take very strong action against people that do that.

But even assuming for the sake of argument that the Arizona law will accomplish anything on that (and I'm not convinced it would), the downsides are far greater. They've been raised repeatedly around here, so I won't go into detail. I'll just mention the potential for racial profiling and the authority of any citizen to sue on the grounds of insufficiently aggressive enforcement.

So ultimately, I go in the category of "something needs to be done." I'll let others argue over where it belings in the priority list. But the Arizona law is not the way to go.


bon bon - May 03, 2010 10:05:28 am PDT #27056 of 30001
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

I wanted to point out something similar to what Fred said. People in Arizona don't support this law because they're all just straight-up racist dummies; they feel genuinely under attack by crimes attributed to Mexican drug lords and others profiting from illegal border crossing.


lisah - May 03, 2010 10:07:40 am PDT #27057 of 30001
Punishingly Intricate

That is just heartbreaking, msbelle.


tommyrot - May 03, 2010 10:25:56 am PDT #27058 of 30001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Switching Thumbs animated gif

Argh!


Theodosia - May 03, 2010 10:28:09 am PDT #27059 of 30001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

It seems to me that a better long-term solution is to put the coyotes out of business by regularizing immigration enough that there's much less incentive to use their services, such as a guest-worker program.


Aims - May 03, 2010 10:32:52 am PDT #27060 of 30001
Shit's all sorts of different now.

Yeah, AZ is for sure treating the symptom, not the overall problem.


Jessica - May 03, 2010 10:37:36 am PDT #27061 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

But at the same time, a subset of people cross the border for more sinister reasons. I've heard Phoenix described as the Kidnapping Capital of America. Mexican organized crime rings cross the border and kidnap people for ransom.

I think there's a difference between illegal border crossing and illegal immigration - to me, "immigration" implies that the goal is settlement in the US, not crossing the border to commit a crime and then head straight back to Mexico.


erikaj - May 03, 2010 10:40:27 am PDT #27062 of 30001
Always Anti-fascist!

It's kind of what they do. I don't know why my brother wants in the statehouse so badly. He'd be good at it, I suppose, but literally banging his head against a wall would save postage.ETA: What Jessica said...I don't think immigration= in the wind, on the lam, whatever. Those people are probably not going to stop anything because law enforcement probably doesn't scare them very much.


javachik - May 03, 2010 10:42:18 am PDT #27063 of 30001
Our wings are not tired.

I think there's a difference between illegal border crossing and illegal immigration - to me, "immigration" implies that the goal is settlement in the US, not crossing the border to commit a crime and then head straight back to Mexico.

BINGO.


bon bon - May 03, 2010 10:58:33 am PDT #27064 of 30001
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

I think there's a difference between illegal border crossing and illegal immigration - to me, "immigration" implies that the goal is settlement in the US, not crossing the border to commit a crime and then head straight back to Mexico.

Arizona is looking for a way to discourage the former, even though it equally affects the latter. They can't do anything about federal immigration laws.