Sidebar, but man do I hate the term 'political correctness.'

Like earlier in the thread: using inverted commas to show that I don't like the term, either. I just can't think of a better one. But I agree with you - it's mainly used as an uninformed put-down.

Will find social model stuff tomorrow, 'cos need to move laptop in a bed-ward direction, 'cos brain is fried by research. I will definitely try to find and post some, first thing, though!

I'm not going to mourn every word that the bullshit consensus (or group affected) decides should not be used. Or if it was a word I liked, I'll mourn and then shrug and find another one. It's part of the evolution of language.

I think this is a very good point. If I appreciate language change, I should try to appreciate this process too.

[link] Coates on Political Correctness.

Because he's awesomesauce.

To my ear it was somewhat inappropriate. It reads as being dismissive of the creative work involved in doing the work. I wouldn't say in front of Jackson Pollack "I could recreate that with some leftover paint and a twirl-o-paint." Art is much more than the materials involved, it's about the creative mind to combine them in such a way as to make a statement. Your statement could also have been interpreted to mean you'd have no problem creating a copy of the work, which is to me, stealing from the artist.

Fair enough, though a) I had no idea the artist was here and b) in my own defense, it's an art project I've seen done on any number of DIY, TLC, and HGTV programs as "cheap art to make your place look spendy".

To what extent are we losing richness in language when we accept what, for want of a better term, I'll call 'political correctness'? As a socio-linguist, and one who is fond of language change and variety, I'm not keen to see language prescribed or proscribed by others. That feels very 1984. On the other hand, there are things I don't want to hear people say - to me, at least. This is a difficult tension to maintain.

It seems to me that opting to re-word how a concept is expressed makes for a richer language, because it pushes writing/communication in a direction that it might not have gone. Forcing it to grow, if you will.

Also, if you'd like some more links on it, Teppy, I can provide. It's what I study and research. I love this stuff.

I would love links! Thanks!

I'm sorry, but you, as a non-mentally-ill person, don't get to make that call.

You're crazy!

It's not worth arguing about, but you either misunderstood me, or you're dodging my point.

I just couldn't scroll back to quote you directly from my open posting window, so I misremembered it.

I'm trying to parse where I make the distinctions, as I'm not so offensive that people feel the need to punch me in the nose on a daily basis.

I do think the issue I raised about fictional writing is relevant. People were willing to grant the flexibility to writers as a special case, but I really think that's a porous and indefensible line. Novelists don't get a special bye.

Parsing: I don't say things that I know will cause offense. But I don't constrain my words based on what might possibly cause offense.

Honestly curious - explain the nuances between niggardly and miserly. Because I parse them the same and I haven't been able to find a distinction in the online dictionaries and thesaureses I consulted.

Well the meaning of the words has to do with the broader constellation of usage around it. For example Scrooge is associated with "miser" in a way he's not associated with being "niggardly."

M-W makes these distinctions and they're not insignificant.

Miserly: of, relating to, or characteristic of a miser; especially : marked by grasping meanness and penuriousness.

That "grasping meanness" is different from the sense of...

Niggardly: grudgingly mean about spending or granting : begrudging.

A miser is not necessarily begrudging, he's more aggressively, actively grasping. Niggardly implies withholding, ungenerosity, begrudging. Miserly has the shading of trying to take as well as keep.

These are all very fine shadings but they are there.

Sidebar, but man do I hate the term 'political correctness.' It's almost always used as a blanket condemnation that does not acknowledge the tension to which you are referring and the complicated algorithm I mentioned earlier.

I've observed that the term "political correctness" is often used by people who are using it as a synonym for "forcing me to not say offensive shit."

But if you use a term as a descriptor and someone says to you that they're offended by it, what would your reaction be? To explain to them why you think that using that term is important to the long-term health and vitality of language? Or would you say that your intent wasn't to offend and offer an apology?

I can still recall being in this very situation back in college. I described a high school friend of mine as gay because he was. Someone took offense at my use of the term, esp since I wasn't gay. Neither was she, btw. (This happened probably just around the time that "gay" was entering into the mainstream.) I will admit my first reaction was annoyance with her, and arguing to defend myself. It took a few minutes for me to realize there is no way to defend myself in that situation. It's not like I can convince someone she shouldn't take offense. So I apologized. But obviously I haven't let it go.

I'm sorry, but you, as a non-mentally-ill person, don't get to make that call.

You're crazy!

True dat.

God, ten years ago, I'd have come down on a very different side in this language conversation. Now, I need the Emanuel brothers to make me feel demure. Or Al Swergin. So, have I lightened up, or become corrupted? Yes. no. Maybe.

I like the insult "draggletail" but try to use that one these days...

if you'd like some more links on it, Teppy, I can provide.

I would like, too, please. I never heard of this "social model" of which you speak, before. The idea of letting my environment conform to my needs instead of me trying to "fix" myself was quite liberating when it finally occurred to me. Like, my sister thinks AutoPay is a terrible idea, but it's a helluva lot better idea than screwing my credit and getting services turned off because in a bout of depression I forgot to pay the bills for a couple months. Getting to telecommute and work permanently from home was almost a lifesaver; being someplace at a certain time, almost every day, dressed, showered, and functional, is virtually impossible for me, and my boss's understanding was wearing thin. I can get "better" - this is me, better, thank you, Welbutrin - but I'm never going to be not-depressed.

Speaking of which, Teppy, do you know anything about Deplin? My shrink added it to my arsenal last month, and I think it's actually helping.