But there's a double-standard there, isn't there? Saying "Prayer is magical thinking" is interpreted as disrespect towards religion, but saying "Prayer is real" is accepted as a neutral statement of religious belief.
I definitely see your point, maybe intent is the key here. A atheist who says "prayer is magical thinking" knows and either intends to or doesn't care about offending the believer, while saying "prayer is real" is not intended to offend.
(and FTR, I am engaging in an intellectual exercise here. I absolutely respect everyone's belief or lack thereof. I suppose that technically, I'm Christian, so am biased in that direction, but am trying to be neutral :) )
I definitely see your point, maybe intent is the key here. A atheist who says "prayer is magical thinking" knows and either intends to or doesn't care about offending the believer, while saying "prayer is real" is not intended to offend.
Saying prayer is real can only be read as not intended to offend if you assume religion as the default state of humanity. It's a function of religious privilege in that respect.
nothin' to see, move along.
I don't know... I think it sounds like magic when you are talking to someone who feels they need to ask God whether to turn left or right or something.
But that may not be because I'm a religious skeptic...that might be a very Lutheran thought, or at least via Lake Wobegon it is.(all of GK's Lutheran jokes seem about spot-on from here.)
But I wouldn't say that asking God for help with something is like waiting for the tooth fairy or something...heck, I ask myself. You never know.
I might hug it out with the divine eventually...the Eastern stuff helps some, but I'd feel like a poser trying to convert(I admire George Harrison very much for that. Also for not deciding in the mid-seventies that India was so last year.)
Dinna fash yerself, JZ.
No hurry. I don't have Paypal, but I can offer $30 for 'em and shipping. You get better than that, you take it, and give Deb my love and good wishes.
A atheist who says "prayer is magical thinking" knows and either intends to or doesn't care about offending the believer, while saying "prayer is real" is not intended to offend.
I really don't think I could disagree more. The assumption (from one side only, I might add) that the intent of the other is to offend is exactly where the double standard comes in. One side is expected to walk on eggshells and the other side is not.
But also, someone who says something like "prayer is real" is usually talking about their own prayer, while someone who says "prayer is magical thinking" is usually talking about someone else's prayer. It's analyzing not just what the person is doing, but what the person is thinking. Saying "Someone who believes that God will immediately respond to each prayer and grant the petitioner's request is engaging in magical thinking" is different than saying "Someone who prays is engaging in magical thinking."
You may consider prayer, the idea of Christ as God, and the Holy Spirit to be "magical," but the people who believe in them do not consider them to be "magic," and to suggest that is just as disrespectful as Christians expecting atheists to get on board with the godhood of Christ.
So (and I ask this as a person who was raised by atheists, and is thus somewhat sympathetic to their position), do you wish the atheists around you to lie about their world view? Because that's what it sounds like. To my parents, prayer and divinity are magical thinking, unsupported by evidence and science.
So, is it okay for Christians to tell non-Christians they're going to burn in hell? Because to not do so would be lying about their world view.
You don't think there's middle ground, where a person can talk about his/her belief system without saying things that are disrespectful of other faiths?
Is there any way to talk about atheism honestly without "disrespecting" religion at some level?
Why the scare quotes? I'm just curious.
while someone who says "prayer is magical thinking" is usually talking about someone else's prayer.
Or, more usually, responding to a question about why they don't pray. It's rarely an unsolicited comment.
