Dinna fash yerself, JZ.

No hurry. I don't have Paypal, but I can offer $30 for 'em and shipping. You get better than that, you take it, and give Deb my love and good wishes.

A atheist who says "prayer is magical thinking" knows and either intends to or doesn't care about offending the believer, while saying "prayer is real" is not intended to offend.

I really don't think I could disagree more. The assumption (from one side only, I might add) that the intent of the other is to offend is exactly where the double standard comes in. One side is expected to walk on eggshells and the other side is not.

Saying prayer is real can only be read as not intended to offend if you assume religion as the default state of humanity. It's a function of religious privilege in that respect.

This.

But also, someone who says something like "prayer is real" is usually talking about their own prayer, while someone who says "prayer is magical thinking" is usually talking about someone else's prayer. It's analyzing not just what the person is doing, but what the person is thinking. Saying "Someone who believes that God will immediately respond to each prayer and grant the petitioner's request is engaging in magical thinking" is different than saying "Someone who prays is engaging in magical thinking."

You may consider prayer, the idea of Christ as God, and the Holy Spirit to be "magical," but the people who believe in them do not consider them to be "magic," and to suggest that is just as disrespectful as Christians expecting atheists to get on board with the godhood of Christ.

So (and I ask this as a person who was raised by atheists, and is thus somewhat sympathetic to their position), do you wish the atheists around you to lie about their world view? Because that's what it sounds like. To my parents, prayer and divinity are magical thinking, unsupported by evidence and science.

So, is it okay for Christians to tell non-Christians they're going to burn in hell? Because to not do so would be lying about their world view.

You don't think there's middle ground, where a person can talk about his/her belief system without saying things that are disrespectful of other faiths?

Is there any way to talk about atheism honestly without "disrespecting" religion at some level?

Why the scare quotes? I'm just curious.

while someone who says "prayer is magical thinking" is usually talking about someone else's prayer.

Or, more usually, responding to a question about why they don't pray. It's rarely an unsolicited comment.

I definitely see your point, maybe intent is the key here. A atheist who says "prayer is magical thinking" knows and either intends to or doesn't care about offending the believer, while saying "prayer is real" is not intended to offend.

And I say "no, it's not" or even "no, I don't think so" and I might as well have smacked someone's mother.

Why the scare quotes? I'm just curious.

Because of the double-standard I mentioned a few posts ago - statements describing atheism are frequently interpreted as rude/disrespectful where an equivalent statement of religious belief would be interpreted as neutral. Who decides?

Random link completely unrelated to anything: [link]

is it okay for Christians to tell non-Christians they're going to burn in hell? Because to not do so would be lying about their world view

Context is key. I had a friend tell me that she believed I'd burn in hell, but that it was my choice and she didn't want to push anything on me. I had absolutely no problem with that. If I get it unsolicited from a stranger, on a picket sign or the like, no, get away. That's rude and disrespectful.

There are absolutely times when "Prayer is real" is used as an attack on people who don't pray. And sometimes it's an expression of intimate personal belief. You can't draw a box around the statement and decide it's only good for one context.