I missed most of the porn discussion, but... OK, maybe I'll get shot down for this, but I am not a fan of porn. I am a fan of consenting activities between two (or three, or four, or ten!) consenting adults. I'm bisexual, and an admirer of BDSM (from varying distances - that has depended on who I've with!). I'm *very* big on inclusion in the feminist movement (very much including men and trans women) - inclusion being my role in the feminist org I volunteer for. I like reading erotic literature, and I think hentai is awesome (not my thing personally, but a fab concept). AND I am fairly anti-porn. Not as much as many members of my org, but I am. I have plenty of time for people's opinions who are pro porn, or who are sex workers, but I've heard too many personal stories and statistics that show what the sex industry can do to women (Kat Banyard's 'The Equality Illusion' is *full* of them, and I was recently at a conference with two women who have appalling PTSD from their years as prostitutes, and their stories really shook me up and led me to look further into the effects of the sex industry). And I do believe that much porn objectifies women. Call me conservative or a prude if you want. But I'm entitled to my opinion. All I wanted to say was - don't lump anti-porn feminists in with anti-trans, anti-gay, anti-bisexual or anti-sex types. I am very pro sex indeed (mmm, sex). I am still against the porn industry.

By the way, the org I work for is called UK Feminista and is truly awesome. As a footnote.

*hides*

My boss actually said this morning, and I quote, "I'm going to break you. I'm going to break you like a horse."

Where's WindSparrow? We need some good poetic justic.

I am not good with numbers.

What a shame, because my first thought was that it would be fun to drop Hil's ex-advisor into your job - and of course if you were mathy enough you could simply have Professor Ass-Chappeau's job.

That was just one of her many She Said What? statements.

Not that you need any advice, but have you considered taking careful notes of those little moments? You know, in case you ever need to prove that the environment was toxic and over-and-above stressful for, say, a lawyer and/or unemployment office?

Seska, no reason for you to hide, that I can see.

Not that you need any advice, but have you considered taking careful notes of those little moments?

This. If not for lawyers, then at least for the human resources department.

DJ, I was pretty zonked when I was writing most of my prostitution posts, and I guess they're not as clear as I intended them to be.

IMO, prostitution, in theory, is ok. My theory presupposes it as a career, classed as any other career, with rights and protections. I see nothing inherently wrong with bartering a skill, be it proofreading or sexual skills, for money.

This obviously is not the case with the vast majority of 21st c. prostitutes. Society would have to go through a huge sea change regarding men, women, equality, morality and power for it to go from theory to reality. I don't think prostitution nowadays is a safe, true choice for the vast majority of sex workers.

I'm just saying there's nothing inherently immoral in prostitution, IMO. I would never think "This person is an swful person because they are/were a prostitute." I think there will always be prostitution in human society. I would like to see it handled much differently than it is now.

Erin, I completely agree. If men and women were equally involved in prostitution (as prostitutes, not pimps), and there was equal demand from both sexes, and if there were the protections that would then inevitably come from an industry where men were working under the same conditions as women, it would be a completely different matter. The state of the sex industry, as it is, is the problem. As you say, changing that would involve far wider changes in society.

Re: prostitution, What Erin Said, and thanks, Erin, for saving me from having to be that coherent this morning!

Re: porn, pretty much the same thing, for me. Inherently I see nothing wrong with it. In practice, it often becomes terrible. I've seen porn that made me sick. What's needed is not to get rid of all porn (like that's even remotely possible anyway) but better education of all humans regarding sex, and better regulation of the industry, and, you know, just generally more compassion of humans for all of each other (which in my darkest moments I think is also not remotely possible), so that people who choose to work in the sex industry in any capacity are protected and not shunned, and people who are forced to do so have a better chance of getting the hell out. In a perfect world, no one would be forced to do anything. In this one, we need to protect each other.

And just my quick two cents worth: anyone, including so-called feminists, who despises sex workers because of what they've chosen to do (or have been coerced into doing) make me furious and ill. Hate the industry and the people who run it, fine, by all means; it often is very awful. Hate the people who do it? Not fine, at all.

eta Just to be totally clear, I'm not talking about you guys. I know you're not hating on the women.

Hiya Bitches!

So I read each and every one of the posts and laughed, shook my head in agreement, and composed notes in my mind to comment. The the last few posts pretty much expressed it all for me.

Also not at all surprised that a number of our sexy group have done the stripper thing. I went from being a scrawny stick with no curves to fat so this was never a career option for me. Also not that great a dancer.

It is storming in Otter Lake today. Brandy asleep at my side. My son asleep on the couch across the room. Me, working as usual. I may have to pour a big jug of coffee and go out on the porch and watch the storm.

Not that you need any advice, but have you considered taking careful notes of those little moments?

This. If not for lawyers, then at least for the human resources department.

HR has a folder two inches thick of complaints filed against this woman. I've never complained to HR myself; I don't trust that it's truly confidential. Crazy!Boss has been "talked to" and sent a couple "effective management" and "don't get us sued" classes, and that's that. She's been there 25 years. She's not going anywhere. The only saving grace is that HER boss knows she's insane.

I have read every post, but I am brain ded this morning and have retained very little. Toddlers are tiring, and sick, cranky toddlers are extra tiring. That and my body is so not used to getting up at 5 AM. I get to do it all again on Monday, but today is coffee and shopping therapy with thessally.

This Woot Shirt of the day seems buffista-ish to me: link

If men and women were equally involved in prostitution (as prostitutes, not pimps), and there was equal demand from both sexes, and if there were the protections that would then inevitably come from an industry where men were working under the same conditions as women, it would be a completely different matter. The state of the sex industry, as it is, is the problem. As you say, changing that would involve far wider changes in society.

This is pretty much the issue. Though I wonder, if those changes were made, if there would still be the demand.

I don't think anyone said anything about hating the workers, just that prostitution is exploitative, and the prostitutes are the victims. I think you would be hard pressed to find many, if any, feminist critics of prostitution who blame the prostitutes.

It's fresh on my mind because Dallas, in the last week or so, has started taking DNA from prostitutes they arrest because-and this whole thing kills me-so many are raped and murdered without a second thought that having their DNA on file helps with evidence collection. [link]