Oh, fear not. I wouldn't have one very often. I'm much more likely to...probably have something that would offend your sensibility even more. Or a dark and stormy. Or, given my migraines, no alcohol at all. But even Nora and Tom have their place. (Nora and Tom! See? They're MFEO!).

You can like what ever you want; that doesn't make it good.

If it tastes good to someone it tastes good to them.

That's what informs an opinion on how something tastes. In fact, it is the only way for an individal to form that opinion.

They can have all the wealth of knowledge in the world but if they don't say "yum" when it goes in their mouth they do not like it. Conversely, if they do say "yum" then they do like it. In matters of, quite literally, taste how something tastes to the taster is the only opinion that matters. To them if it tastes good it is good.

In matters of "which horse ran faster" there are actual objective standards at hand. In matters of "which fibers are finer and straighter" there are objective standards. Even in matters of "which cheese/bourbon/pizza was made with care and fresh ingredients and quality control there are quantatative factors -- but "yum yum" may or may not be influenced by such things and is certainly not beholden to them. In fact there ARE people who enjoy both the terroir of various brie AND salty shit from cans and they may even have no interest in convincing you of anything.

In fact there ARE people who enjoy both the terroir of various brie AND salty shit from cans and they may even have no interest in convincing you of anything.

Just like how I love Stephen King and James Joyce.

There's a better cocktail that you would enjoy more out there for you. I mean, I haven't had as many kinds of gin as you've read books, but even just a brief excursion around the back bar with a decent bartender would get you something tastier. Just as one walk around a used book store would yield many better results than Nora Roberts and Tom Clancy.

Or not. If you like the taste you like because that was how your grandfather made a whisky sour any deviation from that might be nice and all, but it won't be an improvement.

Dean Koontz and Fyodor Dostoevsky.

I cannot imagine a scenario where somebody who is expert on cheese, who has had experience making it, tasting a wide variety of cheeses in the world would say "yum" about a green can of Kraft. Because it's sole virtue is its saltiness. It doesn't taste like cheese.

So, I don't believe that the Kraft can advocate is knowledgeable about cheese. They can think it's yummy, and that's their prerogative. I don't care what they put in their mouth. I just wouldn't give much credence to the value of that opinion.

and they may even have no interest in convincing you of anything.

So I'm not convinced. It has no bearing on what they want to eat. I'm only talking about why anybody would value one opinion over another. Why an opinion might be useful (informed, knowledgeable, something you could learn from) vs. useless (closed, hermetic, self-referential, uninformed, reactionary, baseless).

Shit, I'm not going to apologize for my standards in gin. And nobody else on this entire board would apologize for their standards in whatever they know well.

You might as well say "infer" and "imply" are synonyms.

I don't think anyone is saying that you're not allowed to have standards or preferences for gin, Hec. I think what they're saying is you sound like a judging meany mcpherson when you say stuff like (paraphrasing) "why would you like a dirty martini? you might as well drink olive juice from the bottle" and stuff. Some people like the taste of olives mixed with gin. What's wrong with that? Nothing is what.

ETA: I just scrolled up.

Not to be snooty but, why waste your time on something you don't really enjoy when you could have something you do like? Why have something you can merely tolerate?

This is the part where I'm like "huh?" Who says people are merely tolerating "dirty" martinis? My cousin Buffy LOVES them. She adores gin or vodka, with some vermouth, AND olives. Granted, it is not a "proper" martini, but she loves it, she's not tolerating it.

One more thing, aren't there different kinds of bartenders? I know I've met some who are just very sociable creatures, have wonderful listening ears, are just nurturers. The drinks might even be secondary. And I've met lots of others who really love talking about the liquor, and the chemistry (it's why Steve and I sat talking to the bartender in the hotel outside of Barcelona for over 6 hours - as he brought out homemade tinctures for us to taste) and the art of mixing.

The latter might inwardly grimace when they have to make a "dirty" martini, but the professionals don't show it. And the former, they want to pour whatever will result in happy clientele. Don't think you can necessarily paint all bartenders with the same broad cloth.

Who says people are merely tolerating "dirty" martinis?

People aren't in general, but Teppy is, specifically:

I can tolerate a really dirty martini

But I agree with the other stuff.

Now I want one of my grampa's whisky sours...

Heh. Grampa Booth was a gourmet who raised eight children on a modest salary and considered good meat "cheating" (since all you had to do was not screw it up). And if he'd ever felt the need to establish his bona fides he could have told you about the wealthy family he was raised in and the fine food on which they dined (he never talked about that stuff though, none of them did - somehow being wiped out by the market and watching their father lose his mind made bringing up that stuff not worth it). I was in jr. high before he started buying good olive oil (much easier to get now of course, I'm old) but his meals were fresh and varried and traditional and wonderful and more for decades before he could afford decent ingredients nevermind exquisite ones.

I cannot imagine a scenario where somebody who is expert on cheese, who has had experience making it, tasting a wide variety of cheeses in the world would say "yum" about a green can of Kraft. Because it's sole virtue is its saltiness. It doesn't taste like cheese.

Actually, it was "welfare cheese" my roommate had a soft-spot for. And while he never stocked it at Murray's he enjoyed it a great deal and we kept it around.

(He's the one that taught me "Cheese doesn't go bad, it just changes." I can't remember if it was him or the editor at Gambero Rosso who told me "just say you like 'fruity' wine, no one will wrinkle their nose at you like when you say 'sweet'")

Fine quality can be delightful, but its not some magical essential thing needed to create good food.

Shit, I'm not going to apologize for my standards in gin. And nobody else on this entire board would apologize for their standards in whatever they know well.

I'm not sure if anybody else on this entire board thinks quite so highly of their opinions in whatever they know well.

I'm not sure if anybody else on this entire board thinks quite so highly of their opinions in whatever they know well.

Teppy would stab you in the neck if you questioned her use of the semi-colon.