I don't think anyone is saying that you're not allowed to have standards or preferences for gin, Hec. I think what they're saying is you sound like a judging meany mcpherson when you say stuff like (paraphrasing) "why would you like a dirty martini? you might as well drink olive juice from the bottle" and stuff. Some people like the taste of olives mixed with gin. What's wrong with that? Nothing is what.

ETA: I just scrolled up.

Not to be snooty but, why waste your time on something you don't really enjoy when you could have something you do like? Why have something you can merely tolerate?

This is the part where I'm like "huh?" Who says people are merely tolerating "dirty" martinis? My cousin Buffy LOVES them. She adores gin or vodka, with some vermouth, AND olives. Granted, it is not a "proper" martini, but she loves it, she's not tolerating it.

One more thing, aren't there different kinds of bartenders? I know I've met some who are just very sociable creatures, have wonderful listening ears, are just nurturers. The drinks might even be secondary. And I've met lots of others who really love talking about the liquor, and the chemistry (it's why Steve and I sat talking to the bartender in the hotel outside of Barcelona for over 6 hours - as he brought out homemade tinctures for us to taste) and the art of mixing.

The latter might inwardly grimace when they have to make a "dirty" martini, but the professionals don't show it. And the former, they want to pour whatever will result in happy clientele. Don't think you can necessarily paint all bartenders with the same broad cloth.

Who says people are merely tolerating "dirty" martinis?

People aren't in general, but Teppy is, specifically:

I can tolerate a really dirty martini

But I agree with the other stuff.

Now I want one of my grampa's whisky sours...

Heh. Grampa Booth was a gourmet who raised eight children on a modest salary and considered good meat "cheating" (since all you had to do was not screw it up). And if he'd ever felt the need to establish his bona fides he could have told you about the wealthy family he was raised in and the fine food on which they dined (he never talked about that stuff though, none of them did - somehow being wiped out by the market and watching their father lose his mind made bringing up that stuff not worth it). I was in jr. high before he started buying good olive oil (much easier to get now of course, I'm old) but his meals were fresh and varried and traditional and wonderful and more for decades before he could afford decent ingredients nevermind exquisite ones.

I cannot imagine a scenario where somebody who is expert on cheese, who has had experience making it, tasting a wide variety of cheeses in the world would say "yum" about a green can of Kraft. Because it's sole virtue is its saltiness. It doesn't taste like cheese.

Actually, it was "welfare cheese" my roommate had a soft-spot for. And while he never stocked it at Murray's he enjoyed it a great deal and we kept it around.

(He's the one that taught me "Cheese doesn't go bad, it just changes." I can't remember if it was him or the editor at Gambero Rosso who told me "just say you like 'fruity' wine, no one will wrinkle their nose at you like when you say 'sweet'")

Fine quality can be delightful, but its not some magical essential thing needed to create good food.

Shit, I'm not going to apologize for my standards in gin. And nobody else on this entire board would apologize for their standards in whatever they know well.

I'm not sure if anybody else on this entire board thinks quite so highly of their opinions in whatever they know well.

I'm not sure if anybody else on this entire board thinks quite so highly of their opinions in whatever they know well.

Teppy would stab you in the neck if you questioned her use of the semi-colon.

Thanks, P-C. I hadn't caught that Teppy said that first. So now I see why Hec stated his response that way.

Teppy would stab you in the neck if you questioned her use of the semi-colon.

I don't know, any number of academics and editors let you live when you insisted that a unified standard was silly and that CMS and AP commas should co-exist within a single document, nevermind a single publication.

I am so relieved. My boss's father has been in the hospital for 2 weeks, and on Thursday, her family flew in from all over the world because things were "grave".

He's had a remarkable turnaround and is actually being released (possibly) from the hospital Tuesday morning. I adore my boss and she's really close to her dad.

Java, that's wonderful news.

I cannot imagine a scenario where somebody who is expert on cheese, who has had experience making it, tasting a wide variety of cheeses in the world would say "yum" about a green can of Kraft. Because it's sole virtue is its saltiness. It doesn't taste like cheese.

While sidestepping entirely the question of Kraft green can cheese, I will say that I can enjoy both ends of a spectrum of foods by thinking of them as entirely different foods. For example, I like fresh asparagus and canned asparagus. I just think of them as different vegetables. When I make what I think of as "real" chili, I use a mixture of spices rather than chili powder; I do not include tomatoes; and I serve the beans on the side. I also enjoy a chili-like substance made of ground beef, tomatoes, beans and chili powder. I don't see how a passion for Kraft mac 'n cheese just like mother made rules out an appreciation for the finest cheeses and pasta.

But even Nora and Tom have their place. (Nora and Tom! See? They're MFEO!).

OMG, I was all, how the hell did I get involved in the cocktail discussion?

I am super jealous of the 209 having! Tom and I are currently experimenting with small batch gins and also rums. I also love vermouth and the taste of booze in a balanced well-crafted cocktail. I can't drink gin martinis except at the Zam Zam because I think that bartenders skimp on the vermouth.

I got pegged as a vermouth shit stirrer in Natter a couple months ago for alluding to recommendations that vermouth be stored in the fridge.

Made a "Scofflaw" cocktail the other night- Old Overholt rye, lemon juice, Noilly dry vermouth, and grenadine. Tasty!