( continues...) like us". Is that the goal with the war on terror? They torture, so we can torture? We are a nation of e pluribus unum. Out of many, one. We can not pick and choose the many. Therefore, we need to respect everyone.

The only thing I'm going to say about "enhanced interrogation" is that it's torture. Not "torture." If they're going to do it, they should own it. Not pretty it up or change the language to make it sound like something it's not.

That and I disagree with preemptive killing. I'm not going to go out and kill someone who would like to kill me. I'll kill someone to protect myself from the act of killing me, not the thought. Else I'd probably be busy killing a lot of people.

I'll continue to agree to disagree, much like I do with my family and friends who agree with Shari.

I'm reminded of the argument my sister used that convinced me spanking is wrong.

How do you teach someone not to hit by hitting them?

My understanding of Geneva Conventions is, there aren't Miranda Rights as we know them, but there are very specific rights for captured combatants. The problem we have is, the Geneva Convention applies to nations at war, and signers of said convention. These are individuals. An unknown sized group, loosely held together by a hatred for non-Muslim things. So? What laws do they fall under? Well, we are a nation of laws, we should not pursue or encourage lawless behaviour.

Agreed, and for sure part of the problem is that the law has not kept up with the changing realities. See also intellectual property law in the digital age.

The people Saddam Hussein's sons got their hands on, THEY were tortured.

Most assuredly not. I meant to set parameters for what I consider torture. Rape, permanent disfigurement, breaking someone's body or health permanently - yes. Threatening him verbally? No. I've seen examples of shouting and loud music being called torture. Not in my dictionary.

I seem to recall a quote from Goebbels, talking about allied bombing. In the beginning we would only bomb military targets. Then there was a shift to bomb areas that might have military targets even if there were civilians in the area (like factories). And Goebbels said something to the effect "even if we lose, we have won, for we have made the enemy just like us". Is that the goal with the war on terror?

Clearly, that's not the goal. And can I stick in a good word for Israel, which has fought this war a lot longer than the U.S. and which strives mightily to stick to its principles. See "The Spirit of the IDF"

Not to say that people don't do bad things or go too far in individual cases, in any country. No one lives up to their principles completely. Not Israel, not the U.S., not me, and not you.

The goal of our enemies is our destruction. I don't think sitting by and taking it teaches them not to hit - they're going to anyway. It's not comparable to children. So let's do what we can to have the intelligence, the capability, and the will to stop them. Lacking any of them will guarantee another attack.

BTW Cashmere, I wouldn't use "would like to kill me" as the measure, but action toward killing me, of course. Jewish law has the concept of the "rodef," the pursuer. One may turn and kill the pursuer to save oneself. It's actually the basis of the Jewish view of abortion. The mother has the right to save herself if the fetus presents an immediate and clear danger to her life.

Really getting on a bus now for home. The internets are just too interesting...must tear myself away. Good night, good people.

Fly by...

Brenda - great cut!

Stephanie - Woo Hoo! Well done.

askye, this may go without saying, but the more detailed you can be when talking to your bosses about this the better. List out the tasks involved and what you need that you don't currently have to complete them (training, time where you are free from phone duty, information, etc.). And it's probably good if you come up with a solution for catching up, if possible. Good luck!

What the smart lady said.

Awesome news, Scrappy!!!

Skipping the politics. Y'all know I am a knee-jerk commie pinko liberal. Alas, it is too late for me to get into that kind of discussion.

Tired. Long day. Back to the doctor with Bobby tomorrow. To add the the other stuff the school nurse told me he did not do well on either the hearing or vision screening. But I have pretty nails because my SIL pampered me today.

Watching the Olympics is really making me want to get back on the ice.

Hil, I understand the urge, but not while on Vicodin, ok? Also, I hope you get some relief soon.

I was going to bring up how our country used immoral techniques to find some terror suspects, offering bribes to people who would point the finger and arresting probably innocent people in the process. But when I seached the internet to find info to back up my argument I only found references to MI5 doing this. I could have sworn that's how a lot of people ended up in Guantanamo. Does anyone else remember hearing this?

This isn't even a difficult task, but my anxiety and hence avoidance is through the fucking roof. And actually I'm going to miss two deadlines, one of which was already an extension. For an application for my program to get an AWARD. ::headdesk::

Aw, smonster. I am intimately familiar with the planecrash spiral of anxiety and avoidance when faced with what is, supposedly, a simple task. Here, let me provide you with an example: HUD owes me $2000, from when I sold my previous house. All I have to do is send them copies of a few pieces of paperwork, which I have, and they'll send me the money. I've known about this since 2001. And I have still not done it. The longer I put it off, the more difficult it seems to become. Dude, it's $2000! Not even money motivates me to get past the block of anxiety, and I don't even know why. I have no clue what I'm afraid of.

Thanks, Laura. The Vicodin is helping me feel a bit better. My joints are not going to be in anything resembling a fit state for skating for a while now.

There was just a commercial for a new Cutting Edge movie. I know I'm going to have to watch it.

I read somewhere that something like 7 of the 23 players on the US men's hockey team are named Ryan.