OK, I took a Vicodin. It's probably going to make me too groggy to really do any work tomorrow, but I need the pain relief now.

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Actually, "my PLASTIC HAND" is kind of perfect. I'm always amazed how many real-life applications of that line come up--long ago, I would've thought that "A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend" would be the most real-world useful useful Whedonverse line ever, but repeating "my PLASTIC HAND" inside my head has saved me from punching many, many an unwitting asshole in the throat over the years.

"HEALTHY attachments, Lindsey."

I've found that to be oddly useful in myriad situations.

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I'm sorry, Hil. I hope the Vicodin kicks in quickly.

I have a coworker who has had trouble meeting her deadlines lately. Her way of dealing was to sit in a meeting with me, my manager, and his manager today and say that the reason I make all my deadlines is because all the work I've done for the past three years has sucked. Believe me, no one on this board is that coworker I hate right now.

My boss's boss's response was to move me one step closer to becoming a managing editor. So I suspect the Deflection Queen's clever plan didn't quite work. I'm still a tad annoyed with her, though. Maybe I'll be annoyed with her highness a little less if/when I'm contributing to her performance reviews. Maybe.

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I really need to get this voice in my head to shut up, the one telling me that drugs are for weak people and that a "better" person would stoically work through the pain. I know that's not true, but it's just so much the message everywhere that I can't totally turn it off.

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I'm going to start with a tongue in cheek volley...

Especially when their reason for doing so is to bring about a worldwide theocracy most notable for its anti-non-Muslim, anti-democratic, anti-women, anti-gay agenda.

Like the Republican party and the Christian Coalition? Except for that Muslim part. t /tongue in cheek volley.

Seriously now. This is a war, not about land or resources. It is about ideology. When 9/11 happened, the fear mongers kicked into high gear, and I kept asking "Why", and it was like I was screaming into the wind, as it seems the media and gov't were not asking that question, just "where" to send the troops.

As this is a war of ideology, I think it even MORE important to stick to our guns, and make sure that our ideology is right. "Truth, justice, and the American Way" does not equal torture. Why is ok to torture one person, and not another? Doesn't that torture reinforce why they would hate us? I'm not saying spoil them with caviar and soft pillows. But torture gives limited to no effective results. Threats of torture seem to work better. That aside, I think now is the time when we have to go back to our base. Look at the bill of rights, and ask, "why did the founding fathers want that?".

But we also have to ask "why do they hate us?" Sure, I know we can't all just get along. As much as the hipppy in me wants it to happen, it's just not practical. But I think we, as a nation, have to look at our history, and how the dollar diplomacy has effected the world. How the Domino Theory has had the US gov't put bad people in power, because they didn't side with the Soviets. Noriega, Saddam Hussein, etc. When we are seen as the cause for peoples perils, we have to pay the consequences. And torturing someone is only going to help their cause. I recall a Vietnam Vet pilot story, he got shot down and was tortured by his captors. They kept asking him "where are the livestock stored on the carrier!" They wanted a way to poison the livestock to poison the pilots. The pilot kept telling him that there is no livestock on the carrier. After awhile of torture, he told them what they wanted to hear. There is livestock on deck ___ (I forget where on the ship he said). And then the torture stopped. The problem with torture is, how do you know when he's actually told the truth? How do you know when to stop?

I will ask those who know more about these things if Miranda rights apply to enemy combatants.

My understanding of Geneva Conventions is, there aren't Miranda Rights as we know them, but there are very specific rights for captured combatants. The problem we have is, the Geneva Convention applies to nations at war, and signers of said convention. These are individuals. An unknown sized group, loosely held together by a hatred for non-Muslim things. So? What laws do they fall under? Well, we are a nation of laws, we should not pursue or encourage lawless behaviour.

The Christmas bomber was not a shoplifter. He was an agent of a non-state enemy of this country, wearing no uniform, and actively attempting to kill American civilians. Whether caught on U.S. soil or otherwise, I think that (should) effectively take him out of standing for Miranda rights

What about the Oklahoma Bomber? Should he be an "Enemy Combatant"? He wore no uniform, killed American Civilians, and was for the downfall of the gov't. What about Columbine kids? They wore no uniform, killed civilians. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide that? Re-decide? And again? That can't be shifting line in the sand. You are human? You have rights!

The people Saddam Hussein's sons got their hands on, THEY were tortured.

So our goal is to be like them? Sounds rather bad. I seem to recall a quote from Goebbels, talking about allied bombing. In the beginning we would only bomb military targets. Then there was a shift to bomb areas that might have military targets even if there were civilians in the area (like factories). And Goebbels said something to the effect "even if we lose, we have won, for we have made the enemy just (continued...)

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( continues...) like us". Is that the goal with the war on terror? They torture, so we can torture? We are a nation of e pluribus unum. Out of many, one. We can not pick and choose the many. Therefore, we need to respect everyone.

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The only thing I'm going to say about "enhanced interrogation" is that it's torture. Not "torture." If they're going to do it, they should own it. Not pretty it up or change the language to make it sound like something it's not.

That and I disagree with preemptive killing. I'm not going to go out and kill someone who would like to kill me. I'll kill someone to protect myself from the act of killing me, not the thought. Else I'd probably be busy killing a lot of people.

I'll continue to agree to disagree, much like I do with my family and friends who agree with Shari.

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I'm reminded of the argument my sister used that convinced me spanking is wrong.

How do you teach someone not to hit by hitting them?

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My understanding of Geneva Conventions is, there aren't Miranda Rights as we know them, but there are very specific rights for captured combatants. The problem we have is, the Geneva Convention applies to nations at war, and signers of said convention. These are individuals. An unknown sized group, loosely held together by a hatred for non-Muslim things. So? What laws do they fall under? Well, we are a nation of laws, we should not pursue or encourage lawless behaviour.

Agreed, and for sure part of the problem is that the law has not kept up with the changing realities. See also intellectual property law in the digital age.

The people Saddam Hussein's sons got their hands on, THEY were tortured.

So our goal is to be like them? Sounds rather bad.

Most assuredly not. I meant to set parameters for what I consider torture. Rape, permanent disfigurement, breaking someone's body or health permanently - yes. Threatening him verbally? No. I've seen examples of shouting and loud music being called torture. Not in my dictionary.

I seem to recall a quote from Goebbels, talking about allied bombing. In the beginning we would only bomb military targets. Then there was a shift to bomb areas that might have military targets even if there were civilians in the area (like factories). And Goebbels said something to the effect "even if we lose, we have won, for we have made the enemy just like us". Is that the goal with the war on terror?

Clearly, that's not the goal. And can I stick in a good word for Israel, which has fought this war a lot longer than the U.S. and which strives mightily to stick to its principles. See "The Spirit of the IDF"

Not to say that people don't do bad things or go too far in individual cases, in any country. No one lives up to their principles completely. Not Israel, not the U.S., not me, and not you.

The goal of our enemies is our destruction. I don't think sitting by and taking it teaches them not to hit - they're going to anyway. It's not comparable to children. So let's do what we can to have the intelligence, the capability, and the will to stop them. Lacking any of them will guarantee another attack.

BTW Cashmere, I wouldn't use "would like to kill me" as the measure, but action toward killing me, of course. Jewish law has the concept of the "rodef," the pursuer. One may turn and kill the pursuer to save oneself. It's actually the basis of the Jewish view of abortion. The mother has the right to save herself if the fetus presents an immediate and clear danger to her life.

Really getting on a bus now for home. The internets are just too interesting...must tear myself away. Good night, good people.

Edit because I do know html, dangit.

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Fly by...

Brenda - great cut!

Stephanie - Woo Hoo! Well done.

askye, this may go without saying, but the more detailed you can be when talking to your bosses about this the better. List out the tasks involved and what you need that you don't currently have to complete them (training, time where you are free from phone duty, information, etc.). And it's probably good if you come up with a solution for catching up, if possible. Good luck!

What the smart lady said.

Awesome news, Scrappy!!!

Skipping the politics. Y'all know I am a knee-jerk commie pinko liberal. Alas, it is too late for me to get into that kind of discussion.

Tired. Long day. Back to the doctor with Bobby tomorrow. To add the the other stuff the school nurse told me he did not do well on either the hearing or vision screening. But I have pretty nails because my SIL pampered me today.

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