ETA: I'm thinking the current situation is why Fury pulled out all the stops to resurrect Coulson and put in him charge of a semi-autonomous team. He knew something was wrong with SHIELD, if not exactly what, and needed someone like Coulson to help pick up the pieces when the shit finally hit the fan.

That would make sense.

ETA: I'm thinking the current situation is why Fury pulled out all the stops to resurrect Coulson and put in him charge of a semi-autonomous team. He knew something was wrong with SHIELD, if not exactly what, and needed someone like Coulson to help pick up the pieces when the shit finally hit the fan.

I wonder, though, if Fury really suspected something was wrong with SHIELD -- if he really did, why was he [spoiler for Winter Soldier] totally on board with Project Insight at the beginning of the movie (because even though he didn't know about the "kill 20,000 people at once" part of the plan, he was absolutely defending the helicarriers' intended use as jackbooted preemptive strikes against terrorists who hadn't yet committed any terrorism)? -- or if he was just being typical Nick Fury and always, ALWAYS having a backup plan, since he doesn't trust anyone at all.

I tend to think it was the latter -- just a paranoid, trust-no-one, Nick Fury backup plan. (Less that he *suspected* something was wrong with SHIELD and more that he just planned *in case* something ever went wrong with SHIELD. He doesn't trust anyone, and he knows that power corrupts, even if he didn't know about Hydra.)

I can see him putting in secret bases in the event an alien invasion actually works.

He had to know Phil wouldn't trust May if he found out she was keeping an eye on him. Maybe that's why he left her off the list of People To Tell. It'd be cool if there's a recording from Fury to Phil. Though it's probably tied to his badge. Bad move, Phil.

Steph, Fury was the one who hired the mercenaries to take the ship at the beginning of the movie, just so that Natalia could get on board and upload the data on the magic USB stick. So even at the beginning of the movie, he suspected something was wrong.

Fury was the

I got that, but there's no way that his building of secret, non-SHIELD bunkers only came about around the time of CA2 (or even, let's say, Avengers). It takes time to build secret bunkers, and even more time to pick out a Phil Coulson and get him into a position where he can do real good just in case everything goes to hell in the worst way possible.

Does that make sense? I don't think that he started building bunkers because he thought something was not right with SHIELD; I think he built bunkers because he's paranoid, and his paranoia turned out to be correct.

I know Fury was starting to suspect something was rotten in SHIELD in the movie, but in general, I think he's a (more or less justifiably) paranoid guy whose paranoia was eventually proven correct.

Although it makes me wonder why he was defending Project Insight so strongly to Cap, if he was suspicious that something was rotten in SHIELD.

Tep, to the last point, because to a paranoid guy like Fury, there's always someone listening. And, who exactly would a paranoid spymaster trust? No one. (Until he really has to.)

Fury is just as paranoid about outside threats as he is inside. Which explains why he was so gung-ho about Project Insight.

Between last night's jab from Garrett that Fury was personally responsible for the Chitauri invasion, plus his not actually launching the Extremely Dangerous Technology into the sun, Fury is sounding like a pretty incompetent guy.

Last night's jab from Garrett that Fury was personally responsible for the Chitauri invasion is making sound like Fury is a pretty incompetent guy.

I caught that, but (1) Garrett's opinions aren't exactly credible, and (2) Loki.

plus his not actually launching the Extremely Dangerous Technology into the sun

My reaction to that was "I wouldn't have launched the Berserker staff into the sun, either." IOW, I wasn't surprised all that stuff was still around.

Which really underlines the point of the movie (and now the show): is/was SHIELD dangerous because Hydra infiltrated, or is/was SHIELD dangerous because power corrupts both people and institutions?

Tep, to the last point, because to a paranoid guy like Fury, there's always someone listening. And, who exactly would a paranoid spymaster trust? No one. (Until he really has to.)

Fury is just as paranoid about outside threats as he is inside. Which explains why he was so gung-ho about

Fair points. I didn't consider those. I'm about as black-and-white as Cap about some things.

is/was SHIELD dangerous because power corrupts both people and institutions?

Preeeeeeeetty sure it's that one, given it's one of Joss's pet themes.

Preeeeeeeetty sure it's that one, given it's one of Joss's pet themes.

It's just interesting to me that, on the face of it, the immediate reaction is "Holy shit, Hydra infiltrated SHIELD? Bad evil bad noooooo!", but then you pull back and think "Waaaaaait a second."

Or maybe that was just my reaction. I am kind of simple. It's possible that every other person who saw the movie and/or watches the show had the immediate reaction of "Well, SHIELD is shifty anyway, because power corrupts good people; the Hydra thing is ACTUALLY secondary."