The next time you decide to stab me in the back... have the guts to do it to my face.

Mal ,'Ariel'


Jossverse 1: Emotional Resonance & Rocket Launchers  

TV, movies, web media--this thread is the home for any Joss projects that don't already have their own threads, such as Dr. Horrible.


§ ita § - Apr 29, 2009 2:49:24 pm PDT #1456 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Given the amount of men who use brothels throughout history and buy Maxim, no?

You equate sex with a Doll with buying Maxim? Really?

it's sad, but it's better than being lonely.

How do you define "better"? As healthier? Because establishing consensual peer relationships strikes me as "better".


Kevin - Apr 29, 2009 2:54:57 pm PDT #1457 of 5827
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

I'm thinking a Maxim reader might not be as offended by the notion of paying for sex than, well, this forum. Better can be a short term thing.


Nora Deirdre - Apr 29, 2009 3:04:41 pm PDT #1458 of 5827
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Topher hiring Sierra to hang around with.

He didn't *hire* her, he imprinted a personality on her with the consent of Boyd, not Sierra.

Given the amount of men who use brothels throughout history and buy Maxim, no?

Brothels also prey on women who have few choices, but at least they have more choice on a client by client basis than the Dolls. (sometimes not a *lot* of choice, but...) Every time a Doll has a sexual assignment, that Doll is raped.

Prostitutes get raped too sometimes- it's really not as benign a situation for the women that you are painting.


§ ita § - Apr 29, 2009 3:05:17 pm PDT #1459 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm thinking a Maxim reader might not be as offended by the notion of paying for sex

So you're in the camp of paying for sex with an Active is equivalent to hiring a hooker?

I'm not a Maxim buyer, but it is a magazine I pick up at the newstands to read through, and I see a difference.


Polter-Cow - Apr 29, 2009 4:11:56 pm PDT #1460 of 5827
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

[link]

So, at this point, people were like, "um, is noted feminist auteur Joss Whedon aware that he is making a show about forced prostitution and rape?" Whedon's politics have repeatedly been called into question, and usually for damn good reason. (Here is the thing about doing stuff that appeals to politically engaged audiences: you cannot fuck up politically and have people fail to notice or just go, "oh well, par for the course, ha ha ha!" You get yelled at. Sorry. Deal.) Dollhouse, in particular, had the potential to be hugely offensive. Here is the thing: Whedon, unlike most folks and many feminist or progressive-identified dudes, seems to actually listen when he is called out and to improve his work accordingly. In the case of Dollhouse, I think he is doing smarter work than he ever was. Getting smarter about oppression, I would submit to you, requires making the visible manifestations of it or metaphors for it much, much uglier.

The answer to whether Joss Whedon and his showrunners know how rape-culturey the entire Dollhouse concept is would seem to be, at this point, a big huge Yes.


brenda m - Apr 29, 2009 4:14:56 pm PDT #1461 of 5827
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

The answer to whether Joss Whedon and his showrunners know how rape-culturey the entire Dollhouse concept is would seem to be, at this point, a big huge Yes.

Uh huh, and then what?


§ ita § - Apr 29, 2009 4:16:46 pm PDT #1462 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

What was that post's last line:

Which, as I found out while writing this piece, has pretty much been cancelled.

in reference to?


§ ita § - Apr 29, 2009 4:18:02 pm PDT #1463 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Brenda:

The enemy surrounds you and controls you and is much, much bigger than any one person. The enemy is in your head: it controls what you're allowed to think, what you're allowed to know, who you're allowed to be. Resistance, this time, isn't about throwing punches. It's about getting your mind back. It's about reclaiming your right to define who you are - your right to be a person.

It does go on from there.


brenda m - Apr 29, 2009 4:25:28 pm PDT #1464 of 5827
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

I was just really being snippy about what exactly their being aware of it is supposed to prove, if they're not taking the concept and doing something with it. Which, maybe they're headed somewhere but I think there's a lot still on faith here.


§ ita § - Apr 29, 2009 4:27:58 pm PDT #1465 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I was just really being snippy about what exactly their being aware of it is supposed to prove

Well, up until "Man On The Street" apparently we didn't know they were aware of it. I can't imagine an entire production not having realised there were consent issues inherent in their premise, but there you go.

They're less than half a season in. I think they have done things with it, and hopefully they're not finished yet.