What Laga said.
River: I know you have questions. Mal: That would be why I just asked them.
'Objects In Space'
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Ailleann - Apr 06, 2009 4:31:01 pm PDT #723 of 30000
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
§ ita § - Apr 06, 2009 4:33:02 pm PDT #724 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think Manhattan was more godly in the book, and that the movie did a decent job of making him alien.
Dana - Apr 06, 2009 4:36:27 pm PDT #725 of 30000
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."
I was most enraptured during the Dr. Manhattan section of the movie in the middle, and the bits with Rorschach in prison.
There were a lot of good performances, and a lot of bad music.
Laga - Apr 06, 2009 4:41:59 pm PDT #726 of 30000
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.
I loved Rorschach all the way through.
I think the space squid gives hope that a united planet can eat it. If Dr Manhattan decided humans were a problem he could just wave his hand and make us go away.
edit... but I like my typo. nb- eat s/b defeat.
§ ita § - Apr 06, 2009 5:07:56 pm PDT #727 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think the space squid gives hope that a united planet can eat it.
How? There's no indication of why it didn't work. It was just so damned random.
I get your point that how can one fight Dr. M, but what does one do against the space squid?
DavidS - Apr 06, 2009 5:17:39 pm PDT #728 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
I maintain that the point changed entirely from "we must unite to face a common enemy" to "Be good or 'God' will punish you".
Did you think Watchman had a hopeful point in the comic books? Because it's not. It's the most cynical thing imaginable. It's not a good thing that people unite against a common enemy in the book. It means people are sheep and need to be lead by lies. It's a totalitarian idea. Evil wins, innocents suffer and God walks away.
Both Watchmen and V for Vendetta are Moore looking at totalitarianism from different angles. Ozymandias is an ubermensch/Hitler. He's a zealot idealogue who'll destroy millions of people for his truth.
The two things the V for Vendetta movie got completely wrong were (a) the stupid love story angle; and (b) everybody putting on the mask. That's the opposite of Moore's point. It's not about "I am fucking Spartacus" and democratic unity. It's about radical, anarchic resistance.
Laga - Apr 06, 2009 5:23:12 pm PDT #729 of 30000
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.
Did you think Watchman had a hopeful point in the comic books?
No, I don't think Watchmen ends with hope. But I think it's more believable that sheeple will go along with the plan if it's an alien threat instead of a god-like one.
what does one do against the space squid?
I do admit that ita has me stumped. I suppose I would start with research into the biology of the alien and interdimensional portals. I'm guessing Adrian would have some ideas, too.
DavidS - Apr 06, 2009 5:27:31 pm PDT #730 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
But I think it's more believable that sheeple will go along with the plan if it's an alien threat instead of a god-like one.
They won't unite for long. Even after WWII the U.S. and France were fighting ten minutes after DeGaulle was in office. And the 9/11 pax was short lived. It's kind of a stupid idea. Even the most sheep-like humans are going to forget about space squid dangers without regular reinforcement. You'd really need to stage a space squid attack on a semi-regular basis for decades.
§ ita § - Apr 06, 2009 5:28:19 pm PDT #731 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I'm guessing Adrian would have some ideas, too.
But either solution is his, since both crises are his.
From the movie I got the idea he thought he could discorporate and eliminate Dr. M. Less so from the book. Do the sources support my conclusions?
Ailleann - Apr 06, 2009 6:41:06 pm PDT #732 of 30000
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
Even the most sheep-like humans are going to forget about space squid dangers without regular reinforcement.
I thought that was kind of the point. (Or at least, I took that away from the ending, but that might be because I read it post 9-11.) Ozy had this great idea, but it was all going to fall apart anyway.