I enjoyed Captain America, and from a not-American perspective, the treatment of jingoism didn't bother me. (I enjoyed it more than Thor, which of course, if I were to get my own jingoism on, should probably be reversed.)

Loki, to me, was the Master from Doctor Who (especially Anthony Ainley's Master). He had the veneer of urbanity hiding some psychotic anger management issues; wears his ego on his sleeve; he's smart, but not as smart as he thinks; he has zero threat assessment capacity (it was when he caught Hawkeye's exploding arrow and decided to keep it that I decided it was the same character); his goal, of course, is world domination, and there's the whole "if I can't have it, nobody can!" vibe; he likes using other alien races for muscle; at least one of his adversaries seems more interested in forgiving him than stopping him (which doesn't actually make him look more formidable); and, finally, he seems to spend a lot of time having to escape from one prison or another.

(Oh, and there's also the mind control thing. They both like that.)

Loki didn't ping me at all in Thor, but I thought he was very hot in certain moments in The Avengers. Maybe it was the increased snark.

I still have to catch up on the 900 or so posts that I skimmed over, but I loved The Avengers. Although, I think I liked Cabin in the Woods more.

I posed the questions of "what was his motivation/plan" on IO9, and pretty much no two people had the same answer. Some suggested you look to Thor for the answer, then there was taking over the world, or destroying it...basically more answers than I think a good comic book movie should have.

Not that there isn't supposed to be room for interpretation--that's a good thing, to a certain point. But when a bunch of geeks who OCD over the movie and have seen it multiple times can't agree on "what did the villain want to accomplish", it's, well, it's clear that the antagonist isn't Loki, the antagonist is a combination of all the roadblocks to the Avengers functioning as a team, and he's just a catalyst.

Which is basically fine--having the villain not be what the protagonists must overcome to succeed, but I think for form's sake, that you should flesh him out at least that much. Not saying it has to be the focus, but just have enough dimension for that to be clear to more people.

Also, the explanation that he's getting back at his father is totally dependent on another movie, and not even a movie in Joss' control. I think Iron Man managed to function completely within this movie, and that Loki (and Thor) should do so too.

she's my running favourite for Wonder Woman...

Running favorite, hell - ain't no one else in that game, as far as I'm concerned.

I have no Loki love. In fact, I have a hard time appreciating Hiddleston for the charmer he is, due to my extreme lack of Loki love. As for motivation, maybe he'd been watching the earth for a long time (explaining his familiarity with customs) and when he couldn't be king of Asgard, hatched a plot to rule this "weaker" world. And I could see that time chilling with The Other and Thanos and the Chitauri in whatever fuck dark realm that was could warp a guy further. In conclusion, ::jazz hands::.

eta ha! x-post with ita !

Lynn Collins would be on my Princess Diana shortlist too, but I feel that either of them would do an excellent job in the role.

Lynn Collins has never stayed in my memory--what's her physicality like?

I would have been perfectly happy Adrianne Palicki as Wonder Woman on TV. She's on my list for the big screen, but it's not like any of these women have a track record carrying a movie yet.

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I think this does a very good job of explaining the Loki feels in fandom. Some of you may empathize, some may not. But I totally do. As the youngest and only girl in my family I was spoken over, I was told I was stupid, I was told my opinion didn't matter. I quit talking at the dinner table by the time I was 6 because I learned very quickly that my brothers would talk over me as soon as I opened my mouth and neither my father or my mother would tell either one of the to shut up so I could talk. Oh, I understand Loki completely. I daydreamed about being adopted to explain why my voice had no value in the family. Why anytime I had something to say that was negative I was told to shut up and quit whining. Anyone who has ever had their voice stifled should empathize with Loki. You don't have to like what he did, he's a genocidal maniac, but he had his own internal motivation for his behavior which was consistent with his treatment. Batshit crazy, yes; unsympathetic, no.

Anyone who has ever had their voice stifled should empathize with Loki.

I suppose if I disagree I never had my voice stifled enough? Because the point at which you take resentment at being shut up and make it into a problem that kills other people, you've lost my empathy. And I don't think being yelled over more as a kid would be what pushed me over that line.

I know characters in movies are supposed to have more manifest reactions that we can manage in our day to day life, but I believe there's a quantum leap that's been made by Loki that can't be smoothed over with some sweaty brother-loving (because that's precisely where the feels go next on my dash) and that I just can't follow because I don't want to hurt anyone because of it, not least people who I don't even know.

Anyone who has ever had their voice stifled should empathize with Loki.

I didn't really see where Loki had his voice stifled. Odin even told them that they were both born to be kings. Granted, Odin knew Loki was born to be king of the Jotun, but still, given *strictly* what we see in the movies, I didn't think that Loki was stifled or belittled or devalued, especially by Odin and Frigga. And Thor, frankly.

I didn't really see where Loki had his voice stifled.

It's literalized at the end with him wearing the gag.