But I'm explicitly not wondering about fans. I'm wondering about the average person who probably last read a comic as a teen, and even then, never collected, per se.

I get that. I'm saying that some of those people might think of the Avengers first. Non-fans get at least some of their knowledge-through-osmosis from fans. THere's a large enough Captain America/Avengers fan base that I think there might be a non-insignificant chunk of non-fan random people who would think of the Avengers before the FF or the X-Men. But it's all speculation so it's hard to say.

Are there really a lot of people that get their idea of the comic landscape from fans, and not from what percolates through official channels of pop culture? I get the impression that my parents, for instance, can't make head nor tails of what I say, or my wallpaper or my posters or my T-shirts, but if it's on CNN, it might sink in.

I just think we fans, especially hardcore fans, have a really small influence on public perception of the things we like. I keep forgetting how many people can't actually tell Star Wars from Star Trek. I take so much for granted.

I collected X-Men comics in the 80s, and I still had no idea who Iron Man was--or the Avengers, really--until after the movie came out. I probably heard of the Avengers from other fans, and if someone had asked me who they were in the right situation (a gathering of fans or whatnot) I might have said something along the lines of, "some superhero group or other, I guess." I knew the Hulk, because I saw the tv show when I was a kid. I was aware of Thor comics because I have a Viking thing, but I never read them. Hawkeye? Black Widow? I'm still pretty fuzzy on the back story for both.

I'm looking forward to learning more about them. They just weren't on my radar until Iron Man 2 and Thor (movie).

I keep forgetting how many people can't actually tell Star Wars from Star Trek. I take so much for granted.

Good point. You're probably right that I'm over-estimating how much of an influence fans have on non-fans.

Where do the official channels of pop culture get their knowledge, if not from fans? At some point, doesn't the conversation have to eventually trace back to the people who liked the thing enough to talk about it in the first place?

I am a non-comic fan, and when I think of The Avengers I think of Emma Peel.

I am a non-comic fan, and when I think of The Avengers I think of Emma Peel.

I am a quasi-comics fan, and I'm the same way.

In the UK, the official title for The Avengers is "Avengers Assemble".

Where do the official channels of pop culture get their knowledge, if not from fans? At some point, doesn't the conversation have to eventually trace back to the people who liked the thing enough to talk about it in the first place?

I'd say marketing is a strong contender here. I am learning that The Avengers has comparable numbers to the X Men, but I'm not seeing that it has comparable pop culture penetration, so it can't be simply about the size of the fanbase--the fervency of the fanbase, perhaps? The fact that the X Men can be reduced to a MLK vs. Malcolm X or homophobia type issue and is easier and more exciting to re-package for the mainstream?

How do you sell the Avengers to a group of people that's not actually stopping to buy?

Superheroes punch each other and blow/rip shit up?