I have to admit, my most fervent hope for this movie was that the Reese Witherspoon character would be a cipher for their displaced obsession. I'll turn my feminist card in for the duration of the movie, but once I saw they'd cast an actress with little magic for me, the less I wanted it to be about her.

I don't even really like Chris Pine. Frankly, I just want to go watch Tom Hardy be obsessive about something, and have fights.

Meg Ryan's hair wasn't all that bouncy in the movie I'm referring to. She had it it cut short for her crazy tomboy character: [link]

Oh, right. I actually liked that one, but I forgot that part.

I don't even really like Chris Pine. Frankly, I just want to go watch Tom Hardy be obsessive about something, and have fights.

At that point, why not just watch some other movie with Tom Hardy in it? Or just stare at a picture of him for two hours? I mean the way you talk about it, it sounds like you'd prefer Hardy to be as much or more of a cypher as anyone else in the movie. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd have no idea you were talking about a movie or an actor right now.

At that point, why not just watch some other movie with Tom Hardy in it?

That's a brilliant idea, but one I've already thought of, which is why I'm watching other movies with him in it too...I'm not sure precisely where you're going with that suggestion, or why you thought it was a suggestion with impact.

Or just stare at a picture of him for two hours?

Now I just gotta figure you're snarking at me, right? Or do you want an answer to this too? I'm not sure how to address it without snarking back, and I don't want to be rude.

it sounds like you'd prefer Hardy to be as much or more of a cypher as anyone else in the movie

No, not in the least. I enjoy Hardy in roles where he's obsessive about something and has fights, so I will go to movies where he's acting obsessive about something and has fights very eagerly, above and beyond movies where he's less obsessive or more pacifistic.

Luckily there's not really a shortage of him doing that, but why in the world would I decide to skip one? I have no idea what your angle is here.

I'd have no idea you were talking about a movie or an actor right now.

Is it clearer now? This thread, and movie discussion in general is full of sloppy language that would make it seem like characters and actors are being conflated, and it seems I haven't earnt the benefit of the doubt from you as to being able to tell them apart. I'm kind of disappointed at that, but it's my job to earn it, so I'll get right back on that.

I was being snarky, but not meaning to be mean or pick a fight. It just hit a point where I was kind of baffled you'd even want to see it anymore. I have no actor or actress I'm so into that I'll sit through something that sounds that painful to watch, just because that person was in it, hence the questions. I was intending to sound more, I don't know, playful than it came out, but I have also been away for quite a while, so if anybody's failed to earn the benefit of a doubt, it's me, ita.

It depends for me on the type of painful. Because I will watch some utter drivel for some actors.

Devour? Painful I can stand once. Atonement? My utter lack of interest in seeing it and eye-rolling at the conceit of the plot cannot be moved by man nor McAvoy. Fortysomething? Yes, fine, I watched and rewatched. It's not good, nor does it play to any of my narrative kinks (unlike The Last Enemy), but it gives me a Laurie and Cumberbatch fix, so, you know. Reasons.

that sounds that painful to watch

I've never said it sounds painful for me, though. That's kind of been my point. It sounds like it has some stuff I'm really looking forward to, and some stuff I'm not going to pay attention to.

I'm not recommending the movie to anyone, especially not if it would cause them pain. Their relationship with pain is theirs to manage. I understand it's not a movie with a well-fleshed out female character, but I knew it was Reese Witherspoon long before I knew the movie's name, so I was never expecting that. I'm sure she'll be a very capable placeholder.

I don't expect the male characters to be particularly well fleshed out either, but I'm in it for the motivations I already know about, the action scenes, and the bromance.

I apologise if I took your post more shortly than was intended. I'm trying not to be defensive about my eagerness to see the movie. Because I am. For the reasons outlined above. I like those reasons a lot.

ita ! I fully intend to go to that movie and wallow, too, only in my case it's Chris Pine all the time. FWIW, my female friends who have seen the movie have all enjoyed it tremendously, but I think we'll all pretty like-minded in that we're going strictly for the beefcake and the plot has little relevance to our enjoyment.

If you're a woman who thinks about these things AND wants to engage in pop culture, you pretty much have to get good at ignoring the terrible to enjoy the pretty and/or fun.