David, one difference that I see is that LotR and A:TLA exist within the wider context of cinematic history, a history that has been dominated by white people. So if Asian actors can't even get cast in leading roles in a movie based on anime that draws very very obviously from different Asian cultures, how do they get cast? Also, those are whole cultures, not necessarily ugly stereotypes.

I think that's a huge and valid difference. So that posits the issue against a dominant culture. It's about a kind of equity of representation.

But there are other issues when it becomes more granular as Liese notes in her critique of H50 casting. At what point in history do I stop caring that an Italian-American was cast as a Greek-American? There's some fulcrum point where it becomes onerous to limit the actors or the creators as well.

There's also a related issue, the burden of expectation about creating a positive image for a particular group or ethnicity, often enforced within that group. Spike Lee continually coming under fire for any negative portrayals of black culture.

The parallel that's interesting to me (and I guess this would include the Cameron Avatar movie too) is the way fantasy/Science fiction has a distinct responsibility in portraying race because it's metaphorically dealing with the idea of otherness so often.

While Westerns as a genre also are interested in that question, in those instances there's an historical record to consider. Whereas in the fantasy/SF realm, there can be unwieldy and unintended associations very quickly (cf., Jar Jar).

I don't personally think J.K. Rowling is antisemitic, but I do think when she went to the imaginative well spring she tapped directly into an unconsidered pile of associations to create Goblins that wouldn't have looked out of place in Jud Suss.

Only in the credits, apparently.

In the movie itself, or just on the site? Because IMDB doesn't count for anything. It's user maintained. Posters count. They're studio generated.

Incidentally, ita, I'm sorry if how I broached elements of this discussion pinged you, particularly my broad characterization of Maori culture. (Which, admittedly, I only know from things like Once Were Warriors and Keri Hulme's The Bone People.)

I think it's valid to use race as shorthand artistically.

Shorthand for what? Because I can't think of what race could stand in for, could mean to convey, without it devolving very quickly into the broadest of sterotypes.

I'm pretty sure imdb lists the cast in credits order, so when the credits roll at the end of Last Samurai, Ken Watanabe should be first.

We use accents as shorthand while playing D&D, dwarves are scottish, halflings are high-pitched, goblins hiss. I'm trying to think of a movie that uses racial shorthand that's not a racist movie.

The more I think about it, the more I realize I had nothing to add to the discussion. I want Hollywood to behave in a way that it never has and never will.

There's also a related issue, the burden of expectation about creating a positive image for a particular group or ethnicity, often enforced within that group. Spike Lee continually coming under fire for any negative portrayals of black culture.

Speaking only for myself, I think it's more about the range of characters portrayed, rather than solely positive. I'm thinking about hearing a liberal dude state that female characters in the new BSG were no better than the old, and then back it up by talking about how Starbuck was a promiscuous boozer.

As for the Greek/Italian thing, it still doesn't feel the same, though I struggle to articulate why.

As for the Greek/Italian thing, it still doesn't feel the same, though I struggle to articulate why.

At this point in time, in the USA, both Greek and Italian are considered subsets of White. The default Person in both Hollywood movies and current American society is (Straight Christian) White Male. Therefore the vast majority of Hollywood roles are open to men of pretty much any European heritage in a way that they are not open to minorities.

ION, I went to the Stone premiere and after-party last night, and the best parts of the evening were coming thisclose to tripping over Ed Norton on the way in, and peeing in the stall next to Milla Jovovich on the way out.

I knew nothing about the film going into it, and now that I've seen it I feel exactly the same way. It's a deliberately paced character study, except that I still, at the end of 2 hours, have no fucking idea who these characters are or what I was supposed to learn about them in the course of the film. People at the party were overheard praising it's "subtlety" and "atmosphere" which for some films are valid compliments, but in this case I assume were code for "I'd rather not say how I really feel until I'm out of earshot of the cast and crew."

Also, Milla has freakishly long nipples. They look like toes. (Note - this information was in the film, not the bathroom.)

The after-party was mostly models. I thought I looked okay yesterday until I was in a room full of women over a foot taller than me who make their living standing around looking gorgeous. De Niro had a table reserved for him, but if he showed up at all it was after we'd gone.

Hec, I can't lie--I was taken aback at the idea of an ethnicity being suited for a range of roles just plain on principle. Based on a movie and a book doesn't really make it sit much better.

People take what roles they want from what is open to them. Please open more. End of story.

I'm also not down with the implication that they should be grateful for getting any roles (Uruk Hai or go home), but I'm having a notoriously short-tempered couple weeks, and my comprehension is stilted, so I'm going to leave it that it's just what I'm taking away from your statement, not what you said.

Champion of race blind casting, Norse god Idris Elba, may be up for Luke Cage. That's a lot of alright.

Laga, as a frequent contributor to imdb, I would encourage you not to get too attached to things like the order of their listings. It's not official in the least. Often accurate and useful, but not official. And much less low profile than promotional material.