You know me! I'm like, "Go school! It's your birthday!" Or something to that effect.

Willow ,'Empty Places'


Buffista Movies 7: Brides for 7 Samurai  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


DavidS - Oct 05, 2010 10:50:48 am PDT #11411 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Not just the Maori Uruk Hai casting--pretty much every non-white cast member in the trilogy was cast as evil. It was not good.

I'd concur, though I'd say that the racism is right there in Tolkien.

I don't know - I'm not insensitive to the issue at all. I'm still boggled that people can't see the blatant anti-semitic caricatures in the Ferengi and the Goblins in the Potterverse.

From her comments, I don't know that Taymor has thought through all the implications of her casting. I'm curious to see how she will deal with those issues in the movie. Whether she will use the casting of Djimon to dig into the issues of slavery and colonialism or whether it was a shallow dip into her own biases.


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2010 10:53:32 am PDT #11412 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'd say that the racism is right there in Tolkien

That *so* doesn't have to be brought forward in the movie. Jackson was willing to mess with enough shit. He could have had Maori hobbits or dwarves or white Uruk Hai quite simply. That's on him, and not on JRR.


smonster - Oct 05, 2010 10:56:59 am PDT #11413 of 30000
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.

That's on him, and not on JRR.

Especially considering his faithful remake of King Kong which followed.

In happier race-related movie news, Racebending reports that the casting side for Nico Minoru (Runaways, based on the comic) has been revised to specify "Asian-American." [link]


Polter-Cow - Oct 05, 2010 10:58:14 am PDT #11414 of 30000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Good news, smonster!


Sophia Brooks - Oct 05, 2010 11:10:04 am PDT #11415 of 30000
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

OK- is Julie Taymor my college acting teacher in disguise, because my senior year we did a Tempest with a Prospera and the only black cast member being Caliban. Which was weird, but her casting pool was pretty small (mostly white females) (hence Prospera, and also Trincula, some noblewoman, and a queen). W


DavidS - Oct 05, 2010 12:28:40 pm PDT #11416 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

That *so* doesn't have to be brought forward in the movie. Jackson was willing to mess with enough shit. He could have had Maori hobbits or dwarves or white Uruk Hai quite simply. That's on him, and not on JRR.

It's true he didn't have to perpetuate the racism in the books. I don't know if he had all those options to him, though, especially since Tolkien does talk a lot about "the race of men" and specifically means some crypto-Aryan ideal.

Racial distinction is a part of Tolkien's world building and not just subtext. Gimli's the only dwarf we see. The Elves are specifically conceived as "fair folk" and would have to match his non-Maori stars anyway. Mighta coulda done the hobbits but he specifically cast very short actors to cheat the size difference illusion he was creating. So that limits your pool of Maori actors considerably. Plus you want to match your lead hobbits.

Casting them as Uruk Hai was the obvious way to give a lot of roles to the Maori, which seems like an admirable goal. Plus, I expect as Maori culture with a strong warrior ethos that was more appealing to them than playing hobbitses.

So, again I'm circling to the issue of representation vs. opportunity for POC actors, and I side with opportunity.


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2010 12:36:04 pm PDT #11417 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I expect as Maori culture with a strong warrior ethos

I'm just going to eyeroll at that. The implication that they're better suited or all gonna wanna be angry bad guys because they've got a haka is just fancy stereotyping.


DavidS - Oct 05, 2010 1:01:45 pm PDT #11418 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I'm just going to eyeroll at that. The implication that they're better suited or all gonna wanna be angry bad guys because they've got a haka is just fancy stereotyping.

I don't think I'm mischaracterizing Maori culture.

To cite just one of thousands of articles on the subject, A Maori writer in two worlds.

Witi Ihimaera considers English to be his primary language for articulating his visions of Maori identity. In an interview with Paul Sharrad he said that the Maori language is "sacred" for him, and that English is a "profane" language. He also notes that if his works were written in Maori, they would not reach as wide an audience. What's more, he stresses, Maori is a warrior culture and a homophobic one at that, and does not always have special terms for the ideas he wishes to express.

And all I meant to say on that subject was that it was probably more appealing for Maori men to play warriors. I don't think that's a reach.


Jesse - Oct 05, 2010 1:06:34 pm PDT #11419 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

More appealing for the white filmmakers?


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2010 1:09:36 pm PDT #11420 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't think I'm mischaracterizing Maori culture.

No, but you're stereotyping Maori actors. Rumour has it that they're individuals, and they do all sorts of wacky individual things. Like be gay and shit, despite their culture. Even take acting roles where they aren't the bad guys killing people.