Ugh. Someone tell me to step away from the Internet. It's telling me that basically high school teaching, getting a humanities doctorate, and/or being an adjunct instructor will lead to penury, misery and possible erectile dysfunction. (And I don't even *have* a penis!)

And Shir, have you ever read any Octavia Butler or Sheri Tepper? Butler especially uses the idea of Other/self, and both use the environment, gender and race/species as springboards in their writings. I like Tepper best, though.

But if we can't begin to comprehend the truly alien, as Shir points out, then should we just give up on sci-fi altogether? Is it a pointless genre?

Oh, hell no! It's the only genre I can think of which raises alternatives to the social order on a daily basis (unlike novels, which you have to wait to a truly great one to make you rethink about it).

But first, bedtime here.

Never truer words, but damn, now I'm tempted to stay up and continue the conversation. Bitches: is tempting.

Everyone has limitations, yes. But that doesn't mean you "know how I feel" because you're too short to be a runway model or something. Argh.

Octavia Butler

On my list

Sheri Tepper

Never heard of. Do you have specific recommendation(s)?

I dunno - I don't think Farscape is much different from other popular SciFi shows in this way. D'Argo to me seems similar to Worf, and as members of "warrior races" they really don't seem much different from, say, Vikings....

I think an important difference between Farscape and other SciFi shows is Claudia Black having.

I think an important difference between Farscape and other SciFi shows is Claudia Black having.

Oh, well of course there's that....

Well, the aliens are often bipeds, with two limbs that serve the same purpose as arms. Vital organs (heart, eyes, brain) seem to be located in the general vicinity of human counterparts.

That's true. Unless they're evil, mindless killing machines, in which case they have lots of sharp arms and five heads and stuff.

Yeah - so much so that it's written into canon that 99% of the aliens in Trek are offshoots of "The Progenitors", who seeded the galaxy with almost-copies of themselves.

Ha, really? I guess I haven't seen that episode yet.

Even the horta from "Devil in the Dark" turned into just another member of the Federation; "Ensign Rock" shows up in 2 (non-canon) Trek novels from the 80s, as a Starfleet Academy trainee.

What! Come on now.

Yeah, but humans don't all have the same culture or perceive the world the same way.

We are also aliens!

D'Argo to me seems similar to Worf, and as members of "warrior races" they really don't seem much different from, say, Vikings....

True. I was mostly thinking of the various aliens they encounter. I rewatched a fair bit of the first season a few months ago at the same time I was watching Star Trek, so the difference struck me.

Everyone has limitations, yes. But that doesn't mean you "know how I feel" because you're too short to be a runway model or something. Argh.

This.

Never truer words, but damn, now I'm tempted to stay up and continue the conversation. Bitches: is tempting.

Damn. You are right.

It's the only genre I can think of which raises alternatives to the social order on a daily basis (unlike novels, which you have to wait to a truly great one to make you rethink about it).

Interesting. I don't read enough sci-fi anymore (because I don't read much except academic stuff, because my dyslexic brain won't let me fit in both and also have time to breathe), but what I see on TV doesn't do that, most of the time. In my opinion. Possibly I'm missing the best stuff. I should try and get SF audiobooks. Shir, what do you consider some of the best sci-fi challenges to the social order?

Everyone has limitations, yes. But that doesn't mean you "know how I feel" because you're too short to be a runway model or something. Argh.

Absolutely. I don't claim for a minute I know how you or Seska are feeling.

But I think we could easily live in a world in which, say, being born with brown eyes, or having acrophobia or liking cats would be considered as disability. Or at least, I could see us living in such "alternative" worlds.

I really like Cherryh's Foreigner series for portraying an alien culture that isn't just dressed up humanity but isn't completely incomprehensible, either.