Well, the aliens are often bipeds, with two limbs that serve the same purpose as arms. Vital organs (heart, eyes, brain) seem to be located in the general vicinity of human counterparts.

That's true. Unless they're evil, mindless killing machines, in which case they have lots of sharp arms and five heads and stuff.

Yeah - so much so that it's written into canon that 99% of the aliens in Trek are offshoots of "The Progenitors", who seeded the galaxy with almost-copies of themselves.

Ha, really? I guess I haven't seen that episode yet.

Even the horta from "Devil in the Dark" turned into just another member of the Federation; "Ensign Rock" shows up in 2 (non-canon) Trek novels from the 80s, as a Starfleet Academy trainee.

What! Come on now.

Yeah, but humans don't all have the same culture or perceive the world the same way.

We are also aliens!

D'Argo to me seems similar to Worf, and as members of "warrior races" they really don't seem much different from, say, Vikings....

True. I was mostly thinking of the various aliens they encounter. I rewatched a fair bit of the first season a few months ago at the same time I was watching Star Trek, so the difference struck me.

Everyone has limitations, yes. But that doesn't mean you "know how I feel" because you're too short to be a runway model or something. Argh.

This.

Never truer words, but damn, now I'm tempted to stay up and continue the conversation. Bitches: is tempting.

Damn. You are right.

It's the only genre I can think of which raises alternatives to the social order on a daily basis (unlike novels, which you have to wait to a truly great one to make you rethink about it).

Interesting. I don't read enough sci-fi anymore (because I don't read much except academic stuff, because my dyslexic brain won't let me fit in both and also have time to breathe), but what I see on TV doesn't do that, most of the time. In my opinion. Possibly I'm missing the best stuff. I should try and get SF audiobooks. Shir, what do you consider some of the best sci-fi challenges to the social order?

Everyone has limitations, yes. But that doesn't mean you "know how I feel" because you're too short to be a runway model or something. Argh.

Absolutely. I don't claim for a minute I know how you or Seska are feeling.

But I think we could easily live in a world in which, say, being born with brown eyes, or having acrophobia or liking cats would be considered as disability. Or at least, I could see us living in such "alternative" worlds.

I really like Cherryh's Foreigner series for portraying an alien culture that isn't just dressed up humanity but isn't completely incomprehensible, either.

I think we could easily live in a world in which, say, being born with brown eyes, or having acrophobia or liking cats would be considered as disability. Or at least, I could see us living in such "alternative" worlds.

And that's where you're onto the social model of disability. Which has its issues, but is also amazing. I am going to look for papers for you...

Cash, did you see my tooth fairy post? I ended up getting a wee gift rather than money as that seemed to be what Franny wanted, but had I gone with money it probably would have been a dollar. Instead it was some Hello Kitty sticker thingy.

Thanks, Burrell! I think I'm going to go with a dollar coin. Owen's starting to learn about money and I think it would be cool. I can actually teach him to start saving them up. That way he can figure out how much it takes to buy one Lego set.

Shir, what do you consider some of the best sci-fi challenges to the social order?

Can we rain check the answer to that question to times I'll feel smarter?

Ha, really? I guess I haven't seen that episode yet.

It's...um, the 2nd or 3rd episode of season 1 of Next Generation. So, being on TV, it's "canon". :/

What! Come on now.

Totally not making that part up. In fact, Ensign Rock's horta-ability to "taste metal" is part of a locked-room mystery in one of the books. It's an integral plot point.

But his name is ENSIGN ROCK. GAH.

I just finished re-watching all of Farscape, and most of the aliens are slightly-odd human stereotypes, yes. A couple of the DESIGNS are interesting - Pilot, a merchant (another puppet) from the first season, etc. - but yeah, it's that fine line again between "what would a real alien be like?" and "how much of this will the audience understand?"

That's why I like Cherryh's scifi so much. She's good at postulating alien *mindsets*, and then re-introducing humans...who then seem very WEIRD, because we-the-reader have gotten used to being in the alien headspace. Pyanfar from the "Chanur" series, or the aliens from "Cuckoo's Egg", or even Kekellen from the Genewars books.

I am going to look for papers for you...

Loving Seska

I'll log off and go to bed if you'll log off and go to bed, OK?

Can we rain check the answer to that question to times I'll feel smarter?

Heh. Sure. If you can remind me that I was too tired to discuss the social model with you. Tomorrow I will want to hit myself over the head repeatedly for missing the opportunity.