This is a discussion - sometimes an argument - I have with other fellow SF/F readers: the problem with all fiction is it's written by *humans*. We cannot conceive of the truly alien, all we can do is take a certain number of steps away from "the norm" (whatever THAT means) - and if an author came up with the TRULY alien, it would be utterly incomprehensible.

I don't know if alien-anything would be truly and utterly incomprehensible to us, but it's ought to be strange.

But all in all - YES, THAT and EXACTLY. Which only means that we don't really have options or choices, only variants of the Same and Sane. Just as we only have variants of The Other.

Did I mention how much I hate boxes of exact definitions? Although, all of this raise the question of how we "know" or "feel" that something is original and meaningful for us, and therefore, "true". From all of my pondering and wondering about it, I just found the name for it, as to all fandom related phenomenons: I think it's the punctum Barthes talks about in Camera Lucida [link] . But you can't have the punctum without the studium, and that's the dialectics which builds so much of out understanding of culture, politics, emotion and structure/action.

Which is why I'm trying to put aside dialectics for now, and switch to Latour, etc.. I wrote about it from another aspect a while ago: [link]

Edit: And seriously? Sometimes, after rereading my posts here, I'm just glad you can understand me despite everything. I can't understand myself when I read what I wrote!

That's a longer conversation, though, and since it's nearly 10pm here (and I am disabled and need a lot more sleep than most people), perhaps we should address it another time...!

Oh, let's do so. And yes, it's late. in fact, it's so late it's now tomorrow here.

Just about every alien I've ever seen in SciFi movies, books, etc. still seems on some level (if not many levels) to be human to me.

One of the things I liked about Farscape was that the aliens were pretty alien. They didn't all have the same culture and perceive people and the world the same way.

The Star Trek episode "Devil in the Dark" was also pretty good about making an alien actually alien. There are a few episodes where they do that, I think, although most of them are very human or near-human in their "alienness."

What kind of crazy, alien talk is this?

Being British (of Irish origin): one 'other' I'm delighted to be. Crazy timings and all.

Except when it comes to having to ahem all my TV. Or missing macaroni and cheese. Or decent mashed potatoes. Or waffles with really good syrup. Or... OK, I'm moving back to New York.

Just about every alien I've ever seen in SciFi movies, books, etc. still seems on some level (if not many levels) to be human to me.

Some shows/films/novels do better than others. Trek being among the worst, I reckon. But if we can't begin to comprehend the truly alien, as Shir points out, then should we just give up on sci-fi altogether? Is it a pointless genre?

Edit:

Oh, let's do so.

Then we shall!

But first, bedtime here.

Well, the aliens are often bipeds, with two limbs that serve the same purpose as arms. Vital organs (heart, eyes, brain) seem to be located in the general vicinity of human counterparts.

Except when it comes to having to ahem all my TV.

There's plenty of British TV I have to ahem. I'd love it if I could find episodes of Ready Steady Cook.

The Star Trek episode "Devil in the Dark" was also pretty good about making an alien actually alien. There are a few episodes where they do that, I think, although most of them are very human or near-human in their "alienness."

Yeah - so much so that it's written into canon that 99% of the aliens in Trek are offshoots of "The Progenitors", who seeded the galaxy with almost-copies of themselves.

Even the horta from "Devil in the Dark" turned into just another member of the Federation; "Ensign Rock" shows up in 2 (non-canon) Trek novels from the 80s, as a Starfleet Academy trainee.

Whee.

One of the things I liked about Farscape was that the aliens were pretty alien. They didn't all have the same culture and perceive people and the world the same way.

Yeah, but humans don't all have the same culture or perceive the world the same way.

I dunno - I don't think Farscape is much different from other popular SciFi shows in this way. D'Argo to me seems similar to Worf, and as members of "warrior races" they really don't seem much different from, say, Vikings....

Of course, I've only gotten as far as season 2 in Farscape....

Perhaps I should run away now....

Ugh. Someone tell me to step away from the Internet. It's telling me that basically high school teaching, getting a humanities doctorate, and/or being an adjunct instructor will lead to penury, misery and possible erectile dysfunction. (And I don't even *have* a penis!)

And Shir, have you ever read any Octavia Butler or Sheri Tepper? Butler especially uses the idea of Other/self, and both use the environment, gender and race/species as springboards in their writings. I like Tepper best, though.

But if we can't begin to comprehend the truly alien, as Shir points out, then should we just give up on sci-fi altogether? Is it a pointless genre?

Oh, hell no! It's the only genre I can think of which raises alternatives to the social order on a daily basis (unlike novels, which you have to wait to a truly great one to make you rethink about it).

But first, bedtime here.

Never truer words, but damn, now I'm tempted to stay up and continue the conversation. Bitches: is tempting.