What if you're with a large group, and one side of the table orders quite extravagantly, including a couple bottles of wine, and the other side of the table orders frugally, and then it is decided that the bill should just be split equally?

That's way, way different than one person offering to treat. That is indeed lame, and it's fair for the frugal folks to speak up, point out the difference, and ask to split the bill according to, you know, what each person actually ordered. And the nonfrugals ought to be good and embarrassed.

eta: There was actually a whole Friends episode about this very thing, back in the beginning when Rachel was serving at the coffeehouse, Monica was low on the restaurant totem pole, and Joey wasn't working at all but the others never noticed them gnawing on breadsticks and splitting one side salad.

it is decided that the bill should just be split equally? Is that a valid reason to be annoyed or another instance of "just suck it up"? Hasn't the frugal side effectively been asked to subsidize the extravagant side? That's lame.

Then you are responsible for speaking up and saying "I don't think that we all ordered equally, especially those who didn't drink wine" In that case, you might suggest that the wine be subtracted out and the food bill be split amongst all and the wine amongst those who drank. Or you can man up and say "I prefer to pay for what I ordered" and pay your share and let the rest of the table deal with the remainder.

Yeah, if one person offers to treat the other, then that means paying for everything, as long as the person doesn't order something completely ridiculously expensive. In a group, the group decides whether to split it evenly or have each person pay their share. If the same group goes out pretty often and it's always certain people ordering expensive stuff other other people not, then the group should discuss it.

Right, but at that point you also have to be willing to be the math person.

I solve this problem by mostly going out to eat with my accountant firm owning buddy, who always divvys up any checks in question because he can do it in his brane in about ten seconds. Of course, he's also the wealthiest person I hang out with, so he often solves the problem of having to divvy up by paying himself.

It's actually an issue for us on the other side of things, because we often call up donors and ask them out to eat when we're in their town. We want to check in with them, and give them extra info about what's going on with us. But then they nearly always pay for us, which is not the point! We are happy to pay for them, but they somehow feel that if they are donating money to us but accept us paying for dinner, they are wasting someone else's money.

But by the time it gets to dinner, it's been through our paycheck and payroll taxes and budgeting and everything! It's just us trying to be nice and say thank you!

So we effectively invite ourselves to be taken out to eat sort of perpetually. It's an etiquette problem.

Or you can man up and say "I prefer to pay for what I ordered" and pay your share and let the rest of the table deal with the remainder.

However, if you do this, make sure you actually pay for everything you ordered, plus tax, plus tip. (I was out with some friends recently and several people put in just enough for most of their food -- sometimes forgetting the appetizer or drink -- and rounded up to the nearest dollar, while DC tax plus tip should be about 25%. Compounded over a bunch of people, we ended up about $30 short, and the people who could figure out why we didn't have enough money weren't able to convince the short-changing people that 10% + 15% = 25%, and so we ended up with the people who could actually do the arithmetic having to put in the extra cash.)

eta: There was actually a whole Friends episode about this very thing, back in the beginning when Rachel was serving at the coffeehouse, Monica was low on the restaurant totem pole, and Joey wasn't working at all but the others never noticed them gnawing on breadsticks and splitting one side salad.

There's a perception bias factor here, I think. When I'm feeling strapped or otherwise concerned that I don't spend too much, I'm paying pretty close attention to what I and other people are ordering. If you're not, chances are you're not noticing so closely who had an appetizer and who didn't, or who ordered a second or third drink v. an iced tea.

That doesn't mean at all that I, or whoever, shouldn't be called on it if things are lopsided. Since honestly I do prefer to just split evenly where possible, I make a point of noticing that shit so that if it's lopsided, I don't even suggest it. And I think (and it has always been my experience in practice) that once someone says "I only had a salad, I'd rather just pay for what we had" then that should be the end of the discussion.

That's way, way different than one person offering to treat. That is indeed lame, and it's fair for the frugal folks to speak up, point out the difference, and ask to split the bill according to, you know, what each person actually ordered. And the nonfrugals ought to be good and embarrassed.

Oh, good, because it really, really annoyed me, and put a damper on what was otherwise a pretty delightful time. I ended up paying more than twice what I had ordered. It made no sense, even factoring in that we were paying for the birthday girl...except there were, like, ten of us or so.

(Frequently, I'm the one on the budget, more's the pity - I'd rather be extravagant, since that's the way my inner playa rolls.)

There have been times when I have gone out saying to myself that I can only spend such-and-such since I've been going out a lot recently or buying things, and inevitably, that happens to be the night that I deliberately order the cheapest thing on the menu and drink water, and everyone else orders what they want plus drinks, and then the bill's split equally. And I feel cheap speaking up, so instead I just carry around the perpetual annoyance.

I feel that if the bill's going to be split equally, it should be made clear beforehand so you can order accordingly. There have been times when we've gone out and at the end we see that we all ordered around the same amount, and I don't mind splitting then then since it's closer to being fair and equitable and no one's getting screwed. (In fact, I think in the instance I am thinking about, I picked up on the fact that we were ordering similarly, and so I ordered a drink too since I figured we would split at the end; I'd be paying for the drinks anyway so I might as well have one myself.)

Right, but at that point you also have to be willing to be the math person.

My phone has a calculator!

There's a perception bias factor here, I think. When I'm feeling strapped or otherwise concerned that I don't spend too much, I'm paying pretty close attention to what I and other people are ordering.

Right!

And I think (and it has always been my experience in practice) that once someone says "I only had a salad, I'd rather just pay for what we had" then that should be the end of the discussion.

We'll see if I can manage to do that next time.

Although with my religious company, it tends to be the awkward little dance while we figure out which brand of religious everyone is, and if they expect to drink or not.

"What's the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist?"

"A Methodist will speak to you if you run into him at the liquor store."

The "let's just split it" thing can be really irritating. I'm fine with roughly equal; I get pretty testy when it's a fairly large table and a couple of people say "Let's get appetizers! Let's get bottles of wine!" Then, after I've had one or two beers and none of the wine, they say, "Let's just split the bill."

There was actually a whole Friends episode about this very thing

Yeah, oft times especially in high tax cooed people forget how much to add. Hil, I always said 30% in a big group in dc, especially to be on the safe side and because people are bad atath and cause I tip twenty.

Also I have a wrist tattoo, but it's not super noticeable, i can wear long sleeves or a bracelet. Which doesn't work as well for boys, I think.