Hey, man, where are my pants? I have my hippo dignity!

Oz ,'Bring On The Night'


Natter 63: Life after PuppyCam  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


msbelle - Mar 31, 2009 2:11:27 pm PDT #13258 of 30000
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

Mac is testing for his orange belt right now. Wtf parents who are talking AND taking calls during the test.


beth b - Mar 31, 2009 2:19:41 pm PDT #13259 of 30000
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!

A neighbor that was a landlady and second mom to a very good friend passed away today. Mary was 84, and a woman who tried to live an life as close to her ideals as possible.

I don't need any hugs, but a warm thoughts to her friends and family would be good.


§ ita § - Mar 31, 2009 2:23:01 pm PDT #13260 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Kick their asses, msbelle. Krav them in their ears.

Hil--I think black people were well enough represented at the time for it to be unremarkable. Not what Dickens meant, but unremarkable. It's not like they're casting black people in enviable or powerful positions.

As for the Fagin/Jewish problem, I have no words. I can see many works of Twist leaving it out, because it seems a bit uncomfortable to deal with (uh, I haven't read the book myself--just going by a few portrayals I've seen), but if you have read the book there's no excuse but your blindness.


Hil R. - Mar 31, 2009 2:25:51 pm PDT #13261 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

The book constantly refers to him as "the Jew" and "the old Jew." Like, when any other character would be "the man stood up" or "the boy stood up," Fagin gets "the Jew stood up." There is no way it's possible to read that book and not realize that Fagin is Jewish.


§ ita § - Mar 31, 2009 2:30:17 pm PDT #13262 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I just checked Wikipedia:

The first 38 chapters of the book refer to Fagin by his racial and religious origin 257 times, calling him "the Jew", with just 42 uses of "Fagin" or "the old man".

Now, I figured from watching the version they complained about that suddenly creating his Jewishness out of whole cloth would have been even more work than I imagined, but that stat is pretty pointed.

The entry goes on to mention that Dickens later went on to clean up the antisemitism, but it sounds like later chapters, not later versions, as you'd expect from a serial.


beth b - Mar 31, 2009 2:43:52 pm PDT #13263 of 30000
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!

go mac, go!


P.M. Marc - Mar 31, 2009 2:44:55 pm PDT #13264 of 30000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Dickens and Fagin were mentioned in reference to RF2009. (Apparently, the character of Fagin caused some Victorian RF action, with your typical number of bingo hits by CD, and then some remorseful Attempts to Do Better.)

(The moral of this story is apparently that the more things change, blah blah blah.)

(Which, when I think about it too hard, is just depressing. Are my great-great grandkids going to be stuck fighting these SAME. FREAKING. BATTLES???)


meara - Mar 31, 2009 2:49:43 pm PDT #13265 of 30000

Which, when I think about it too hard, is just depressing. Are my great-great grandkids going to be stuck fighting these SAME. FREAKING. BATTLES???

Yes. But it'll probably be about something new and different. Like, people who have internet implanted in their heads vs. people who don't for religious reasons. Or whatever.


P.M. Marc - Mar 31, 2009 2:52:20 pm PDT #13266 of 30000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Yes. But it'll probably be about something new and different. Like, people who have internet implanted in their heads vs. people who don't for religious reasons. Or whatever.

The freaky non-implant people have it coming.


Dana - Mar 31, 2009 3:01:58 pm PDT #13267 of 30000
I haven't trusted science since I saw the film "Flubber."

Oh, my god, Charter is Satan. SATAN, I tell you.