Yeah, that fic doesn't show anything that Dean did that was shitty. Just that he thought of himself that way. And that? Textbook Dean with an extra helping of mourning.

Right--I forgot about the saying goodbye to Bobby in the timeline. I don't remember how he's dressed for that, but I'd imagine it's a pretty compressed timeline. Like Amy said, alone is not good for him right now.

I'm mainly wondering how much time between Dean showing up at Lisa's and Sam appearing outside.

Yeah, it's hard to see, clotheswise. It could be the same outfit.

Lucifer messing with Sam during the mirror scene(s) [...] seems like a long way to go to remind us that Lucifer is a bad guy.

I think it was a long way to go (but not in a bad way) to show us the destiny involved in Sam embracing the Lucifer choice and I think it all paid off marvellously with the look on Sam's face after the demons were all killed. Plus I'm sure it will have ramifications about whoever/whatever he is now.

eta:

I need to avoid fixit fic that thinks the finale was broken. I liked the finale. Putting things back together after that pain, easily or hard, that is interesting.

Doesn't make him a shitty dad to YOU

I understand where you are all coming from and if it had said Dean thought he was a shitty dad that would be different from putting forth the declaritive statement that Dean was a shitty dad. "Dean is a dick, basically." For that to happen, Dean has to do something that causes that state to come into being. I have a hard time getting to that place for Dean. He probably thinks he is a shitty boyfriend, son, brother, father, everything, but doesn't mean he was.

And now I realize that I am arguing a point in a coda that I don't really care about. I can go along with Dean is a shitty dad. This is one of those moments though when I'm thinking I was watching a different show and a different Dean.

that would be different from putting forth the declaritive statement that Dean was a shitty dad

Eh. It's Dean POV.

and if it had said Dean thought he was a shitty dad that would be different from putting forth the declaritive statement

It was his POV. Like, in-head narration.

So, for me, it was Dean's thoughts about himself. Not an outside judgment.

eta: Oh. ita already said that. Whoops.

I didn't get a sense of who Michael was other than someone who took his filial duty to an assholish extreme.

I pretty much agree. And I've got to admit, I was a little narratively disappointed in the Stand-Off of Meaningful Dialog between Lucifer and Michael.

I didn't get a sense of who Michael was other than someone who took his filial duty to an assholish extreme.

I don't think we were meant to, though? He seemed to be a symbol to me, in a way Lucifer wasn't.

Lucifer was (possibly) what Sam could have been, taken to the extreme, embracing the darkside and its power.

Michael was, well, Dean. Until very recently. A Dean who never learned that he could choose something outside of what his father had trained him to do.

I don't think we were meant to, though? He seemed to be a symbol to me, in a way Lucifer wasn't.

That's part of the problem. Lucifer was (to me) an interesting character, with complex feelings and relationships to his brothers. The Lucifer-Gabriel confrontation packed a lot more punch than the Lucifer-Michael fight. It's more compelling to see one fleshed-out character fight another than to see that same character fight a symbol or an idea.

IMO, Lucifer was just as intransigent as Michael, but there was more to him that that intransigence. Now that I think of it, I think that if I had cared about Michael as a character, that fall into the pit would have had even more of a punch. It would have been heroic for Sam and heartbreakingly tragic (in the old, hubrisy sense) for Michael.

It's more compelling to see one fleshed-out character fight another than to see that same character fight a symbol or an idea.

I can see that. For me, though, I feel like Dean and Sam already had that confrontation and came through it. So aside from who died as a result of Michael and Lucifer's confrontation, I didn't really care about it. We had to see it, so we could see what happened to Sam and Dean (and Adam), but I didn't feel like I was supposed to care that much.

YMMV, of course.

So aside from who died as a result of Michael and Lucifer's confrontation, I didn't really care about it. We had to see it, so we could see what happened to Sam and Dean (and Adam), but I didn't feel like I was supposed to care that much.

If we weren't supposed to care that much, that strikes me as one hell of a missed opportunity. I think that's what pushes me past apathy towards the outcome of the fight to annoyance.

Edit: I find that when I am annoyed with Show, it's less to do with the choices they make in terms of plot or character direction and more to do with execution. I think Lucifer and Michael falling together into the pit was excellent; I just wish I had more investment in that part of the outcome.

I remain theoretically disappointed that we never got to see JA play Michael. I thought Jake...wait, he's JA too, huh?...was serviceable. But I could have gotten more out of the "I am the good son" and brother parallels from the boy who grew up without a father or siblings if a more nuanced actor had been able to put more heft behind it.

I got as much from Michael as I wanted--but I'd have liked more from the Michael-Adam hybrid irony and false parallels.