Perkins - I'd like the song also.

I also wondered about the salt line and Sam.

In addition to the Brady killed Jess, there was something else that jumped out as a "retcon" or change in what we thought was canon and now I don't remember what it was. Off to iTunes to watch again, I guess.

I'm trying to decide whether there is any chance Crowley is not playing them. My conclusions - some, but that is not the way to bet.

1) Crowley's reasoning on what happens to demons if Lucifer wins is spot on. Demons are just us mud-monkey's (who Lucifer hates in a sibling-rivalry-slasher-movie sort of way), twisted into a weapon to use against heaven and against other mud-monkeys. When he has no more use for them they will be discarded. Aside from Lucifer's back story we saw the evidence for this in episode where it turned out the Colt could not kill Lucifer.

2) But the sending of Lucifer back to hell (as opposed to the original plan of killing Lucifer) does not solve Crowley's dilemma. A Lucifer in hell still has agents on earth who will eventually track Crowley down, and send him to hell to be tortured forever.

3) Shepard turned the "I'm not to be trusted" vibe to max when his character was saying he did not know the Colt would not work. If that is a lie then Crowley is working with Lucifer from the beginning. Because there is no way he would put himself in that position deliberately. Either he thought the chance to destroy Lucifer was real, or he was working with Lucifer.

4) If Crowley sincerely took a shot at a Lucifer by giving the boys the Colt, then most likely he is working with them to get them into a position where they have a genuine chance to send Luci to hell, but he is a position to stop them. His intent is to do a deal with Lucifer - Crowley keeps boys from thwarting devilish plans and Lucifer does destroys Crowley with the other demons rather than tormenting Crowley eternally.

5) If you think about it this is why even demons who know the score probably will mostly support Lucifer. Stay loyal, and you get destroyed. Don't stay loyal and face eternal torment instead. Mind you most of the demons seemed to believe Lucifer is going to lead them into demon-happy-land. Massive brainwashing probably does not produce a gift for independent thinking in most cases.

i'd love the song too, Perkins. profile addy is good!

Checking wikipedia indicates that the original coining of the term aligns with my usage, although it's come to include alteration of canon now. Hmmph.

I know language evolves but I dislike it when it makes me look (okay, FEEL) dumb. Words should not mean two contradictory things. Unless I am using said contradictions to my own advantage.

What else is alteration of canon called?

I'm quite pissed at the conflicting definitions of retcon too. They need two separate words. They are validly different concepts.

Do we know that the box they want to put Luci in has to be in hell? That just seems like trouble.

I can't decide how much I believe Crowley.

Did he really do what he told Brady? How much of a coincidence would it be if the demon nest had the exact same coin tracker he'd used on the boys? As I type that out I wonder if we were supposed to believe him or not.

Also, if the hellhounds had his scent, they'd have his scent. They wouldn't have to be diverted by following the coin.

When's the first time we see salt used as a boundary for hellhounds? Isn't it goofer dust?

O death has been sent to Suzi and Tiggy. Let me know if I missed anyone.

I was surprised at the attempted salt barrier for the hellhound, too. I suppose it was a desperate improvisation, them not having brought along goofer dust, anticipating hellhounds.

One tiny well-done technical thing? The sound of Crowley heavy-patting his hound. Very realistic.

Nice parallel there, to the angels bringing John and Mary together. I wonder if the writers had all that together at the same time?

Wait, so is Dean the feminist the only one that's fallen in completely uncontrived love? Not that Azazel could make Jess and Sam fall for each other, but it does sap the magic.

During Sam's final confrontation with Brady, after Brady started telling him that Sam was a demon too (paraphrasing, bear with me), I wondered if Sam was going to be able to walk over the salt line.

I've wondered a few times if they were going to have issues with Sam crossing lines and such. How human is little Sammy, you know?

I hesitated with Sam crossing the salt line after Brady did all his blabbing. I'm choosing to think that the demon was supposed to put that doubt in my mind as well as Sam's, but Sam being able to cross it shows that he's not evil. So say we all.

What else is alteration of canon called?

Bullshit.

Or it should be.

I can't decide how much I believe Crowley.

I don't believe Crowley at all. Ruby was saying the same things about Lilith that Crowley is saying about Lucifer. Same characters, different gender. Still sexy.

As I am watching the "psychic kids" on the TNT run, I'm confused. If Sam is the one true vessel for Lucifer, why are there so many psychic kids? Was it all a set up so that Jake could kill him and therefore force Dean to make the crossroads deal, get into Hell, and break the first seal?

Some of this episode is just sinking in as far as how much Sam is discovering that his entire life has been manipulated. His mom was killed by the YED, his friends were selected by the YED, he was introduced to his love through the YED in order to give him the pain of her loss. Was Mary killed in order to do the same thing to John? So that John would raise the boys in the hunter life rather than being normal citizens? So much pain for Sam. Too much.

I bought that it was in character when Dean was standing and watching Sam take care of the demon. It seemed very paternal, like he was ready to step in if anything started to go sideways.

"I'm with Moose" and "I'm with Squirrel".

Now I'm earwormed with "moose and squirrel" in a bad russian accent, dahlink.

One tiny well-done technical thing? The sound of Crowley heavy-patting his hound. Very realistic.

Which just added to them being even more scary. I really don't like those things. My fear of monsters is now ranked at Vampires, Hellhounds, and then Werewolves. Wait. Clowns, Vampires, Hellhounds, and then Werewolves.

I'm going to have to put Weeping Angels right at the top of the list. Thank you, Steven Moffat.

I'm rewatching the end of the ep, and Sam standing menacingly watching Brady in the alley is ♥. The whole exchange:

Dean: All those angels, all those demons, all those sons of bitches, they just don't get it, do they Sammy?
Sam: No they don't, Dean.
Dean: You see, Brady, we're the ones you should be afraid of.

Is why I love outsider POV so much. They are both so far gone down the all-but-psycho path. I love that Dean calls this angry hulk of a man Sammy, and Sammy doesn't object.

Okay, now I'm earwormed with "a moose bit my sister."

Thanks, Edlund!