I mean, let's say you did kill us. Or didn't. There could be torture. Whatever. But somehow you found the goods. What would your cut be?

Mal ,'Out Of Gas'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Cass - Apr 30, 2010 9:17:03 am PDT #8190 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I've wondered a few times if they were going to have issues with Sam crossing lines and such. How human is little Sammy, you know?

we saw him in Sam's room when he was a baby and we were led to assume Mary's death and Jess's death went down the same way.

We were led to assume that but having it be Brady doesn't feel retcon to me so much as clarification. I'd never have thought Jess wasn't killed by the YED, but it makes just as much sense to have a henchmen do it.


§ ita § - Apr 30, 2010 9:23:03 am PDT #8191 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Brady doesn't feel retcon to me so much as clarification

How do you define retcon, then? To me it's something that doesn't violate the facts as set down, but definitely contradicts the assumptions that the writers have happily had you make--and I think it's probable that the writers had YED killing Jess like they'd had him killing Mary, until such time it was better for someone else to have done it.

Checking wikipedia indicates that the original coining of the term aligns with my usage, although it's come to include alteration of canon now. Hmmph.


Cass - Apr 30, 2010 9:28:46 am PDT #8192 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

How do you define retcon, then?

Incorrectly.


SuziQ - Apr 30, 2010 9:38:03 am PDT #8193 of 30002
Back tattoos of the mother is that you are absolutely right - Ame

Perkins - I'd like the song also.

I also wondered about the salt line and Sam.

In addition to the Brady killed Jess, there was something else that jumped out as a "retcon" or change in what we thought was canon and now I don't remember what it was. Off to iTunes to watch again, I guess.


Typo Boy - Apr 30, 2010 9:40:28 am PDT #8194 of 30002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I'm trying to decide whether there is any chance Crowley is not playing them. My conclusions - some, but that is not the way to bet.

1) Crowley's reasoning on what happens to demons if Lucifer wins is spot on. Demons are just us mud-monkey's (who Lucifer hates in a sibling-rivalry-slasher-movie sort of way), twisted into a weapon to use against heaven and against other mud-monkeys. When he has no more use for them they will be discarded. Aside from Lucifer's back story we saw the evidence for this in episode where it turned out the Colt could not kill Lucifer.

2) But the sending of Lucifer back to hell (as opposed to the original plan of killing Lucifer) does not solve Crowley's dilemma. A Lucifer in hell still has agents on earth who will eventually track Crowley down, and send him to hell to be tortured forever.

3) Shepard turned the "I'm not to be trusted" vibe to max when his character was saying he did not know the Colt would not work. If that is a lie then Crowley is working with Lucifer from the beginning. Because there is no way he would put himself in that position deliberately. Either he thought the chance to destroy Lucifer was real, or he was working with Lucifer.

4) If Crowley sincerely took a shot at a Lucifer by giving the boys the Colt, then most likely he is working with them to get them into a position where they have a genuine chance to send Luci to hell, but he is a position to stop them. His intent is to do a deal with Lucifer - Crowley keeps boys from thwarting devilish plans and Lucifer does destroys Crowley with the other demons rather than tormenting Crowley eternally.

5) If you think about it this is why even demons who know the score probably will mostly support Lucifer. Stay loyal, and you get destroyed. Don't stay loyal and face eternal torment instead. Mind you most of the demons seemed to believe Lucifer is going to lead them into demon-happy-land. Massive brainwashing probably does not produce a gift for independent thinking in most cases.


tiggy - Apr 30, 2010 10:12:44 am PDT #8195 of 30002
I do believe in killing the messenger, you know why? Because it sends a message. ~ Damon Salvatore

i'd love the song too, Perkins. profile addy is good!


Cass - Apr 30, 2010 10:15:54 am PDT #8196 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

Checking wikipedia indicates that the original coining of the term aligns with my usage, although it's come to include alteration of canon now. Hmmph.

I know language evolves but I dislike it when it makes me look (okay, FEEL) dumb. Words should not mean two contradictory things. Unless I am using said contradictions to my own advantage.

What else is alteration of canon called?


§ ita § - Apr 30, 2010 10:54:57 am PDT #8197 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm quite pissed at the conflicting definitions of retcon too. They need two separate words. They are validly different concepts.

Do we know that the box they want to put Luci in has to be in hell? That just seems like trouble.

I can't decide how much I believe Crowley.

Did he really do what he told Brady? How much of a coincidence would it be if the demon nest had the exact same coin tracker he'd used on the boys? As I type that out I wonder if we were supposed to believe him or not.

Also, if the hellhounds had his scent, they'd have his scent. They wouldn't have to be diverted by following the coin.

When's the first time we see salt used as a boundary for hellhounds? Isn't it goofer dust?


Lee - Apr 30, 2010 11:04:21 am PDT #8198 of 30002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

O death has been sent to Suzi and Tiggy. Let me know if I missed anyone.


Beverly - Apr 30, 2010 11:23:23 am PDT #8199 of 30002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I was surprised at the attempted salt barrier for the hellhound, too. I suppose it was a desperate improvisation, them not having brought along goofer dust, anticipating hellhounds.

One tiny well-done technical thing? The sound of Crowley heavy-patting his hound. Very realistic.