Nothing under the age of fourteen, please. Better yet, sixteen.

So--fanonically, when did the boys lose their virginities? I'll give Dean 14 or 15, with a year or so later for boys, in my particular world. Sam, 16 or 17. Boys, if at all, Stanford.

Not formally educated and stupid are two completely separate beasts.

I'm totally down with the not good at anything in school he had to pay too much attention to like English or history, but good with math, engineering, shop, etc., and generally bright. I've read some authors who've decided to make Sam relatively math-deficient--is that something from Show, or just compensatory?

I dig that Sam's big-brained and everything, and I think it's too twee when writers make Dean just as smart, but hiding it to make Sam feel special, but there's plenty of room to be intelligent and not the genius.

And I'm only slightly talking as the sister of a Cambridge PhD here. There had fucking better be room.

I think it's too twee when writers make Dean just as smart, but hiding it to make Sam feel special, but there's plenty of room to be intelligent and not the genius.

Exactly. I don't think he's a genius, but I don't really think Sam is either. I think Sam is very intelligent and very *focused* with the motivation and patience to get himself into law school (or learn arcane languages) because he wants to.

I think Dean has excellent common sense, a greater capacity for learning or understanding material than most people would give him credit for, *if* he's interested. As in, wanted to read (and clearly understood) Vonnegut. I think his natural capacity for hands-on stuff and engineering, etc., is probably pretty big, too, as you said.

So--fanonically, when did the boys lose their virginities?

I'm pretty much with you, and I've seen it written ... well, pretty much always that age(ish) for Dean, with Sam sometimes very young and sometimes not till Stanford.

In my fanon, I generally think Sam probably experimented with boys at Stanford for a lot of reasons, and Dean I generally feel probably wanted to but never did. I'm not sure why.

the sweet, grandfatherly doctor in the gun shop

Blu Mankuma! From Forever Knight! And Cadence!

And JA sells that face SO well, completely blank, not at all there, just waiting for the order.

Good little soldier

Very Alec-face in that scene.

For me, Simon Said brings out the fear for and protect-Sammy-ness of Dean. The compelled speech in the car. "We hunt monsters. And we think you are one. Sammy's afraid he's one too--" Shut up, Dean! "I'm tryin'." The touch to the back after the bus crash where Dean kneels behind Sam sat all boneless on the ground. As the camera pans around the tree, you see Dean's hand fall from where he's been supporting or patting Sam's back. Also the stone pillars that reappear in In the Beginning in S4. Dean easing Sam to the ground when he crumples with a vision. Sam waving Dean back out of Andy's compulsion range. Dean abruptly stopping the car in the middle of the road as a vision hits Sam, and racing around it to get to him. Knowing JP was three sheets to the wind with painkillers after his wrist surgery while filming most of the ep is fun, too. "What are you, seven?"

Sarah is such a good candidate for Sam to bump into down the road, or look up on purpose. She was game, she was bright, she was sensible -- I liked her very much.

Plus, Dean told Sam, "Marry that girl." She has the Dean full seal of approval!

I have now decided to stick to only pre-series Jess stuff, no AU

Before you commit to that, have you read Refur's The Crow on the Cradle? It's rough, but it's really good. Especially if you're not reading it WIP.

There's a wonderful outsider POV that I can't seem to find. I'll keep looking, post it when I find it.

I generally think Sam probably experimented with boys at Stanford for a lot of reasons, and Dean I generally feel probably wanted to but never did. I'm not sure why.

Interesting! No boys for Dean? And I bet you have Wincesty overtones to Sam experimenting, don't you? Or at least breaking free of expectations.

I see Dean as a big old pansexual. OMG, I just had a spitup accident thinking of him in silky panties while trying to drink my Coke. Maybe a chick suggested a threesome and it went from there.

have you read Refur's The Crow on the Cradle? It's rough, but it's really good

What's the premise?

That's dirty pool. If the pairing is going to change, you should note it up front.

I think if it changes the warning (so adding Wincest, for certain) you should note it but I sort of feel cheated when I know every single pairing going into a story. There's less mystery or surprise or enjoying the journey for me. I get that people want all of that information, so I deal, but I love letting a story unfold as I read it.

I interrupt this discussion to bring Misha being hot.

I *can* see Dean as pansexual? I can never make up my mind which way it went with him, when I'm really basing it on canon. There's a lot "I don't swing that way," with him, but then again that could be protesting too much. And certainly his interaction with Castiel in PoNR skewed that opinion.

I can easily believe Sam would have been curious if approached, and completely PC enough to want to try it. And I don't have to have Wincesty overtones there, missy. Not ... always.

Hustler!Dean without abuse

Ooh, I hoped I marked one story because, wow, will you like it.

Though, I am guessing, not the story that I only can call How Dean Gets the Knife. Does anyone know the actual name or author on that one?

There's a lot "I don't swing that way," with him, but then again that could be protesting too much.

Or maybe he did go that way and nope, not the route for him.

(I'd read it.)

Cass, you've mentioned that so many times and I still don't think I've read it. Do you have a link?

As far as marking your pairings--you do risk not attracting people that surf by pairings. Apparently I'll read anything not S/D or demon or Lucifer anyone, but I do tend to do it in waves. So it's not just keeping people away, but drawing them in.

That is a phenomenal hiatus beard, Misha. You win.

There's a lot "I don't swing that way," with him, but then again that could be protesting too much.

You also saw his "Ooh Dr. Sexy!" face, though, didn't you? That was the same face JA uses for Dean and boobies.

I hoped I marked one story because, wow, will you like it.

::grabby hands::

I am also tempted by this knife stuff you mention.