Weechester fic when they're still wee enough that Dean is ridiculously out of place in his parenting efforts. John POV welcome especially as he marvels at it, with regret

Aw, yes. Very much so.

Do you mean hustler!Dean without abuse as in hustling doesn't come from abuse (by which I assume you mean John)?

Do you mean hustler!Dean without abuse as in hustling doesn't come from abuse

A fair amount of the stories I could find had his first foray into the biz be because some nasty guy forced him into it. Sometimes at a really distressingly young age. No likey.

I prefer the ones where a sexually precocious Dean decides "I can totally do that for money." Yeah, it's rose-glasses view, but that's what fic's for, right? I'm not asking for Pretty Woman or anything. Just a Dean who's making decisions, even ugly ones.

I get that. I think I don't mind hustler!fic being sort of ugly, even for Dean.

I have greater depths of pain tolerance than I once assumed.

I have greater depths of pain tolerance than I once assumed.

The one where he was assaulted at 9 and kept on in the life? More than I needed.

It's like Jess always being perfect. I can dig it happening sometimes (well, not at 9--that was just too unpleasant and broken (and dismissed like it wasn't ugly!)), but I like my Dean with agency too.

And smarts. Please to write smart!Dean, writers.

I didn't read that one, thank goodness. Good god. Nothing under the age of fourteen, please. Better yet, sixteen.

Now *I* want to clutch my pearls.

Dean is smart! I don't get why people think he's dumb. Not formally educated and stupid are two completely separate beasts.

Nothing under the age of fourteen, please. Better yet, sixteen.

So--fanonically, when did the boys lose their virginities? I'll give Dean 14 or 15, with a year or so later for boys, in my particular world. Sam, 16 or 17. Boys, if at all, Stanford.

Not formally educated and stupid are two completely separate beasts.

I'm totally down with the not good at anything in school he had to pay too much attention to like English or history, but good with math, engineering, shop, etc., and generally bright. I've read some authors who've decided to make Sam relatively math-deficient--is that something from Show, or just compensatory?

I dig that Sam's big-brained and everything, and I think it's too twee when writers make Dean just as smart, but hiding it to make Sam feel special, but there's plenty of room to be intelligent and not the genius.

And I'm only slightly talking as the sister of a Cambridge PhD here. There had fucking better be room.

I think it's too twee when writers make Dean just as smart, but hiding it to make Sam feel special, but there's plenty of room to be intelligent and not the genius.

Exactly. I don't think he's a genius, but I don't really think Sam is either. I think Sam is very intelligent and very *focused* with the motivation and patience to get himself into law school (or learn arcane languages) because he wants to.

I think Dean has excellent common sense, a greater capacity for learning or understanding material than most people would give him credit for, *if* he's interested. As in, wanted to read (and clearly understood) Vonnegut. I think his natural capacity for hands-on stuff and engineering, etc., is probably pretty big, too, as you said.

So--fanonically, when did the boys lose their virginities?

I'm pretty much with you, and I've seen it written ... well, pretty much always that age(ish) for Dean, with Sam sometimes very young and sometimes not till Stanford.

In my fanon, I generally think Sam probably experimented with boys at Stanford for a lot of reasons, and Dean I generally feel probably wanted to but never did. I'm not sure why.

the sweet, grandfatherly doctor in the gun shop

Blu Mankuma! From Forever Knight! And Cadence!

And JA sells that face SO well, completely blank, not at all there, just waiting for the order.

Good little soldier

Very Alec-face in that scene.

For me, Simon Said brings out the fear for and protect-Sammy-ness of Dean. The compelled speech in the car. "We hunt monsters. And we think you are one. Sammy's afraid he's one too--" Shut up, Dean! "I'm tryin'." The touch to the back after the bus crash where Dean kneels behind Sam sat all boneless on the ground. As the camera pans around the tree, you see Dean's hand fall from where he's been supporting or patting Sam's back. Also the stone pillars that reappear in In the Beginning in S4. Dean easing Sam to the ground when he crumples with a vision. Sam waving Dean back out of Andy's compulsion range. Dean abruptly stopping the car in the middle of the road as a vision hits Sam, and racing around it to get to him. Knowing JP was three sheets to the wind with painkillers after his wrist surgery while filming most of the ep is fun, too. "What are you, seven?"

Sarah is such a good candidate for Sam to bump into down the road, or look up on purpose. She was game, she was bright, she was sensible -- I liked her very much.

Plus, Dean told Sam, "Marry that girl." She has the Dean full seal of approval!

I have now decided to stick to only pre-series Jess stuff, no AU

Before you commit to that, have you read Refur's The Crow on the Cradle? It's rough, but it's really good. Especially if you're not reading it WIP.

There's a wonderful outsider POV that I can't seem to find. I'll keep looking, post it when I find it.

I generally think Sam probably experimented with boys at Stanford for a lot of reasons, and Dean I generally feel probably wanted to but never did. I'm not sure why.

Interesting! No boys for Dean? And I bet you have Wincesty overtones to Sam experimenting, don't you? Or at least breaking free of expectations.

I see Dean as a big old pansexual. OMG, I just had a spitup accident thinking of him in silky panties while trying to drink my Coke. Maybe a chick suggested a threesome and it went from there.

have you read Refur's The Crow on the Cradle? It's rough, but it's really good

What's the premise?

That's dirty pool. If the pairing is going to change, you should note it up front.

I think if it changes the warning (so adding Wincest, for certain) you should note it but I sort of feel cheated when I know every single pairing going into a story. There's less mystery or surprise or enjoying the journey for me. I get that people want all of that information, so I deal, but I love letting a story unfold as I read it.