I think the problem for me was that they were treating all of the gods as MotWs--they were killing people for no apparent reason other than they could, Dean's attitude towards them was typical of how he treats MotW, and they ended up being cannon fodder for the Big Bad. And you know, they're all gods. Why not have a Gods War Council without MotWing them. That would have been really cool, and even if they had died, it wouldn't have bothered me as much.

It would have been interesting if their power were commensurate with people's belief in them

I think that's supposed to be the basic reason Lucifer could beat them, because Judeo Christianity has so many more followers, but still. Weakly executed.

I've mulled, and come to the conclusion that within the show's theology, what really bothers me is what they had to do so that Dean could be pissed at them and insult a room full of gods and not want to work with them, more than the killing (and the vessel thing makes sense, now that it's mentioned)--the human sacrifices. If they honestly had a room full only of gods that accepted them, that would be cool. But I'd be really surprised to discover that. Who did we have?

• Kali
• Mercury
• Baldur
• Ganesh
• Odin
• Baron Samedi

Who else? Who was the Chinese guy?

It makes basic sense that Dean wouldn't want to work with the gods, since he's not that guy, and that Sam would get there easier, but I think it could have been more elegantly (okay, maybe I'm asking Show to be a different show) achieved.

eta: or you know, like in less words, what Perkins said.

It would make me laugh if Thor were to show up and knock Lucy into next week for messing with Daddy.

Dean's attitude towards them was typical of how he treats MotW

Dean doing that didn't bother me as he has been shown as a man of no religious faith and they eat people. He's killed Gods before.

I agree with you about the show treating them as MotW and that was an unfortunate story choice.

I'm ready for this apocalypse to conclude. I'd like a religion-free S6.

Zao Shen is listed as a character in the credits on IMdB.

It would have been interesting if their power were commensurate with people's belief in them. But if that were so, there were some serious inaccuracies in strength portrayed. Wasn't that canon in the Xmas episode with those pagan Gods?

Well, Kali did trade multiple shots with Lucifer before being knocked down (and surviving), whereas he splattered the gods from inactive pantheons like they were soap bubbles. Though Ganesh is the outlier, as he also has worshippers numbering in the hundreds of millions. Since I've never heard of him being bloodthirsty or accepting human sacrifice, I wish they'd just left him off the roll call and had Dean pass Tezcatlipoca's room while seeing a jaguar out of the corner of his eyes instead.

Could the Chinese guy have been Pangu?

Pangu (Traditional: 盤古; Simplified: 盘古; pinyin: Pángǔ; Wade-Giles: P'an ku) was the first living being and the creator of all in Chinese mythology.

Pangu

There seems to be a female Chinese deity, associated with the turtle story.

Nüwa

ETA: nevermind, Amy has the answer.

Dean doing that didn't bother me as he has been shown as a man of no religious faith and they eat people. He's killed Gods before.

It didn't bother me in terms of Dean--it totally fit his character. It just strikes me as unfortunate that the writers went that route. Having the boys dragged to a Gods' council without making the Gods monsters would have been better, IMO, and Dean would still have bitched at them, because he's Dean.

The writers have it wrong anyway, I think. Zao Shen's page doesn't mention the world turtle, but Wiki says this:

The turtle has a prominent position as a symbol of steadfastness and tranquility in religion, mythology, and folklore from around the world.[6] A tortoise’s longevity is suggested by its long lifespan and its shell, which was thought to protect it from any foe.[2] In the creation myths of several cultures, the turtle or tortoise carries the world upon its back or supports the heavens.[5]

In Chinese tradition the creator goddess Nu Gua cuts the legs off a sea turtle and uses them to prop up the sky after Gong Gong destroys the mountain that had supported the sky. The flat undershell and round domed upper shell of a turtle resembles the ancient Chinese idea of a flat earth and round domed sky.[7]

The World Turtle carries the Earth upon its back in myths from North America. In Cheyenne tradition, the great creator spirit Maheo kneads some mud he takes from a coot's beak until it expands so much that only Old Grandmother Turtle can support it on her back. In Mohawk tradition, the trembling or shaking of the Earth is thought of as a sign that the World Turtle is stretching beneath the great weight that she carries.[5]

I generally felt multicultural ick for this episode's treatment of other faiths/gods. That said, I wish some of the deities represented would have taken God's approach (from what we understand) and said they did not want to be involved, or acknowledged that there were other crises on the other side of the globe that may have needed their immediate attention.

It does make me wonder what advice Buddha might give the Winchester brothers? Or if not Buddha, a well connected Buddhist monk? Perhaps the bigger question: Does any of this belong in a narrative that is so thoroughly rooted in Christian themes?

A little OT from discssion of last night's ep, but I caught Devil's Trap this morning. The last scene really lacked its customary punch without Bad Moon Rising wailing in the background.