Angel: Is that what you think you are--a hero? Spike: Saved the world didn't I? Angel: Once. Talk to me after you've done it a couple more times.

'Destiny'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Lee - Apr 02, 2010 11:25:26 am PDT #6770 of 30002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

I didn't see Ash as Stepford happy, at all.

Of course, I fricking love Ash's heaven.


ehab - Apr 02, 2010 11:28:05 am PDT #6771 of 30002
...all my words have been taken by my work. - Mala

Of course, I fricking love Ash's heaven.

He was loads of fun, it's true. You're probably right about not being Stepford happy, but I would want his "spying on angels & wandering around screwing with heaven" version of heaven over "sitting in the roadhouse shotgunning beer" version.


§ ita § - Apr 02, 2010 11:59:22 am PDT #6772 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Well, he was getting to hang with some pretty cool people while he did.

I wonder if he was really hanging with them, or hanging with their images. I guess really them, to drive home his mojo.


Theresa - Apr 02, 2010 12:12:52 pm PDT #6773 of 30002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

The JJ panel starts here.

Thank you for posting that Bev. Now I must smish them. Cutieheads.

I wonder if he was really hanging with them, or hanging with their images. I guess really them, to drive home his mojo.

I thought Ash had figured out how to go in and out of others' heavens and bring them into his. So everyone he was talking to was the real deal. That's why he was still looking for John and Mary rather than a memory of them.

Just a thought, but anyone else think heaven sucks?

Yes, big time. Life is as good as it gets. Heaven is a replay of your greatest hits (if you get bored can you kill yourself in Heaven?) and hell is full of torture. Damn depressing.


Matt the Bruins fan - Apr 02, 2010 12:25:47 pm PDT #6774 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Just a thought, but anyone else think heaven sucks? Alone with the echoes of your memory? Yuck. And both Ash and Pamela seemed Stepford happy

If that's all it is, yeah. Ash and Pam's ability to cross from one personal Heaven to another makes me hope that eventually, once people get past the happy reminiscence/wish-fulfillment stage of it, they start meeting up, socializing, sharing enjoyable experiences with each other, etc. Sort of like in What Dreams May Come where Robin Williams initially wakes up in an idealized version of his own imaginary dream house and starts reuniting with loved ones once he's ready to.

No knock on Joshua (I think he was both excellently written and acted, and Yay Show for finally featuring a benevolent authority figure of color), but I really wish the confrontation with Zachariah could have been ended by Real!Mary kicking a door in and going all Ellen Ripley on his ass. (Maybe with Joshua showing up to remark that people are most like God when filled with selfless, protective love for their children, a connection that ought not be disregarded in Heaven.)


§ ita § - Apr 02, 2010 12:27:34 pm PDT #6775 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

So everyone he was talking to was the real deal.

No offense to Ash, but he might not be in Einstein's idea of heaven. That's a bit presumptuous.

Personally, I'd like heaven to be better than life--Ash's looks like it was. Pamela's might be. But what Sam and Dean were stacked up for looked like TiVo of life, and how many segments would they really have to choose from? How happy is your happiest moment if you can still remember that bit where you tortured souls in hell/opened the final seal?

I mean, I guess you can't make more bad moments, but it's a dodgy way to spend eternity.


Theresa - Apr 02, 2010 12:39:30 pm PDT #6776 of 30002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

No offense to Ash, but he might not be in Einstein's idea of heaven. That's a bit presumptuous.

Whether through tracking them on the Angel scanner or other means, Ash wouldn't be in any people's heavens that he had never met but was able to "trespass" briefly. At least that is how I took his explanation. I'm guessing because he was able to go into Sam and Dean's heaven and bring them into his.

If that's all it is, yeah. Ash and Pam's ability to cross from one personal Heaven to another makes me hope that eventually, once people get past the happy reminiscence/wish-fulfillment stage of it, they start meeting up, socializing, sharing enjoyable experiences with each other, etc. Sort of like in What Dreams May Come where Robin Williams initially wakes up in an idealized version of his own imaginary dream house and starts reuniting with loved ones once he's ready to.

I like this idea much better. I wonder if you could have some type of border security to keep out people that made it to Heaven but you didn't like in life and who insist on showing up without calling first.


Morgana - Apr 02, 2010 2:09:28 pm PDT #6777 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

Right now, I think Dean telling his mother that John loved her and he loved her too. Because...damn. I thought it all started when John handed Sam to him. I thought that was what his need to protect family centred on. But no, he's been doing this longer, under his own steam, and the idea of going back to that moment figures heavily enough that it comes up in heavenly rotation. Protecting his mother, telling her he'd never leave her, is that important to him.

Sam now knows that Dean's been cleaning up after John for a longer while, and he knows too that Dean is just hardwired that way.

Maybe this can lift some of the burden of being Dean's lifelong responsibility from Sam, since not entirely all of Dean's family fucked-uped-ness issues are on his shoulders after all.

In fact, both brothers have been entirely subjective narrators the entire length of the show. Viewers and fans would do well to remember that fact when interpreting canon action we see unfold right before our eyes onscreen, in light of what we're told by canon characters.

This quote was in regards to people in fandom who persist in asserting that John drank heavily. But I'd like to suggest that it applies to other issues as well -- for instance, whenever I bring up the issue of John's lack of contact with the guys and how he never even called when Sam notified him that Dean was dying, someone inevitably will suggest that John told Caleb to call Sam about the faith healer. Which is an okay theory for a fanfic. but it never happened in canon.

Also, whenever Sam mentions John drinking - like last night's comment about John passed out on Thanksgiving - does Dean ever contradict him? Is there any reason to believe he didn't drink, perhaps heavily, even if he wasn't a raging alcoholic? Frankly, it would make perfect sense to me for hunters to drink given everything they deal with.

Count me as someone who wishes Pamela didn't mack on Dean, it just felt superfluous and left me feeling vaguely uncomfortable. I love Pamela, but I'm not sure what she added to the story, unless it was the further easing in of the idea that Dean will say yes to Michael. His consent is feeling a lot less like 'yes' and a lot more like 'why not'.

I felt the same way. I like her character but last night she was coming across with such a hard sell that I suspected that the whole setup was going to be an illusion created by Zacariah. And the macking was superfluous.

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the episode yet, and I'm really feeling the need. So much happened and little tributaries of thought lead off in directions all over the place. For instance, I'm surprised by how much the thought of young Sam running away for two weeks, an idea that would normally horrify me, actually makes me happy. It reinforces his fierce determination to get away on his own, his independence and self-reliance and ability to take care of himself, even if only for a short period of time. So often in the fandom I see young!Sam treated as though he's practically incapable of crossing the street without Dean carrying him on a silken pillow, so it's gratifying to see that he was capable.


§ ita § - Apr 02, 2010 2:45:47 pm PDT #6778 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Ash wouldn't be in any people's heavens that he had never met but was able to "trespass" briefly.

Then how would he know how good Einstein's White Russians were?

I see young!Sam treated as though he's practically incapable of crossing the street without Dean carrying him on a silken pillow

They were happy to ignore After School Special, I'm sure they'll find a way to work around this.

The idea of a bullheaded teenage Sam trying to escape and making it out for two weeks is interesting and I don't think surprisimg...the urge is perfect understandable in a fifteen or so year old, but the lack of empathy still to not have realised Dean would be hurt/catch hell for it? Not sensitive Sam's shining moment.

But he was feeling all over this one, almost from the start. Dean shut down/narrowed his focus pretty quickly. Sam spends so much time watching Dean in any shared scenes, but Dean's always looking away. Or, at the end, at Castiel.

And, to conclude, soulmates.


§ ita § - Apr 02, 2010 3:38:42 pm PDT #6779 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Oh, and Dean wasn't in the bed nearest the door.