Kripke is a bastard, though. You never know. I mean, I never would have anticipated the semi crashing into them, or Ava going darkside, or any of a million horrible things, so.

Bobby looked so utterly in despair when he looked at... it was Dean, right? At the end? I fear for him. Like, how hard is he going to try to keep going? Amazing performance. I loved his wife, too. The character and the actress.

The sheriff was, I think, on a soap I used to watch, but I can't think of it. I guess I could IMDB it, but eh.

Have been reading over the last 900 or so posts: 1) I've missed being in here (well, on line much at all, really), and 2) OMG the awesome vid and fic recs! Yay! Retro thanks, dudes.

Random thought #2 -- would Dean's idea of heaven really entail him going to a place where he's 4 years old?

If he could be with his mom, yes.

I don't agree. I can see Dean wanting to go a place of peace, with no more fighting, either against "dee-monic sons of bitches" or between his family members. Undoubtedly he'd want an intact, loving family unit. But Dean is a man in all contexts of the word, and his sense of responsibility and strength are bone-deep in him. I can't see him wanting to infantilize himself.

I am happy to see them in heaven though. I've read way too much fanfic that presupposes that both of them are bound to go to hell.

Random thought #3 -- even though anonymous thug hunters are shooting them, assuming Michael and Lucifer have been telling the truth they could both be brought back, couldn't they? Michael and Lucifer aren't going to let their vessels get knocked off, after all.

There is the angle that with his mother is the last time he feels he was happy, so he would be pulled there. And Sam might very well have the same "those were the days" instincts (despite never having lived through them), barring going back to Stanford--and I'm thinking those days were more fraught to the paradise lost of the pre-vengeance Winchester life.

Amy, I really, REALLY hope you and Theresa are right.

Oh, I don't think I am right. I just hope it doesn't go that way.

Discussion here is assuming the boys are in Heaven. Zachariah is in the previews so he can certainly have a hand in it and I wouldn't think his Heaven would be a nice place. It can be any number of twists although I doubt we see another djinn. Besides I've seen the boys and the Impala die before and they came back. Dying is kind of a relative term for Winchesters.

But Dean is a man in all contexts of the word, and his sense of responsibility and strength are bone-deep in him. I can't see him wanting to infantilize himself.

Dean is completely empty as read by the horseman Death. I don't think he has any needs per se beyond keeping Sam safe. Anything that belongs in the adult world, Dean indulges but it satisfies nothing for him.

Question from one of the previews that none of you have commented on. I'm spoiler-fonting it for those avoidant.

It's pretty obvious to me that Mary doesn't *see* Sam. She talks to Dean, though Sam is between her and Dean. Dean is seated at the breakfast table, Sam is not. It's brief, but it was there, and obvious to me. Just me, then? It emphasizes Dean and Mom before Sammy--or at least before baby Sam could talk.

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned here that the last aired ep was supposed to run before the Death ep. So we still have to see who or what responds to Dean's plea for help, and whatever after-effects Sam suffers from his recent round of detox.

I'm spoiler-fonting it for those avoidant.

I appreciate that, although I did wind up watching the sneak peaks in the end.

I'm hesitant to open this can of worms, but given that the thread header says that anything aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game, what about official sneak peaks that are aired on the Web? Would it be fair to put something about those in the header (e.g. "Discussion of official promos not aired on TV should be discussed in spoiler font.")?

Bev, my knee-jerk assumption was that wherever they are, Dean is the lead player. Probably because Zachariah is trying to manipulate him into becoming the vessel. Sam maybe even isn't supposed to be in the fantasy, or they're not showing his portion of "heaven" in that clip.

But, it's a trailer, so it's hard to do more than guess.

For me, the clip Bev is talking about was so fast, I never even noticed any of the things she mentioned way back, like Dean's shirt or any of that.

I see it now. I thought we were still talking about the aired trailer, not the one sumi posted. Oops.