I have a feeling though that Sam's normal life would have come crashing down

Him lying to Jessica would have to bite him in the ass at some point. He has an entire life he can't talk to the woman he loves about. Something's gotta give.

they've screwed it up more than once

And they've crawled back to each other, despite that. I mean, they each know the apocalypse-precipitating, just-plain-stupid stuff the other one has done, and they keep dealing. They keep risking it all for each other, and even when they can't laugh about it, or get drunk in a bar together, they gravitate back to each other, to keep each other human.

What does fixing that entail? John broke them so long ago, and they just kept breaking themselves into smaller pieces after he was done.

I don't think there is any fixing that, now. And I think the love they have for each other is really strong and *good* in its own fucked up way, not just, "We're all we have left."

not just, "We're all we have left."

I picture it more of a "we're the only species of our kind left" rather than we're the only family left.

And no, they can't be fixed. They couldn't be fixed before Sam saw Dean killed every day for six months (or whatever time) and before Dean spent Forty years being literally pulled apart piece by piece daily in Hell.

I guess that is wrong. Dean only spent thirty years being pulled into pieces. The next ten years, he was doing it to others. No fixing.

I think the love they have for each other is really strong and *good* in its own fucked up way, not just, "We're all we have left."

I think they're tight in a spiral where they can only be what each of them has left. Even with Cas and Bobby (is he still there?) on their side, they're locked into a tight dyad that puts up strong walls against other people.

So while the core bond between them I think is good, the idea that Sam wouldn't let Bobby in at all (although Ruby might take some of the blame, I still think it's his Dean monomania that drove the whole thing) to help him with his pain is a big deal. After all, Sam is the one that can live without his brother--but he can't live with himself or another human without his brother.

After all, Sam is the one that can live without his brother--but he can't live with himself or another human without his brother.

Great observation! I didn't think about that when wondering which one of them could survive the other. Sam can do it but --it's a scary Sam.

Future Dean can do it too, and is equally scary.

I don't think I want this show to resolve itself happily, unless the definition of happy is still extremely broken and dysfunctional.

Future Dean can do it too, and is equally scary.

I'm torn on judging Future!Dean. I still think that when he approached the Sam!Meatsuit, there was a little something inside him that hoped his brother wasn't all gone. I don't have a confidence that Dean won't tear out of this world on his brother's actual death.

But the times where he's had to just be separate from his brother are not pretty, without Castiel around to alleviate things. But if the writers ever wanted to convince me that Castiel could convince Dean to live after Sam died, they better give me slash onscreen.

the definition of happy is still extremely broken and dysfunctional.

Are the brothers the broken ones, or are we?

Future Dean can do it too, and is equally scary.

Do we know how long he survived? And Future Dean may have had some hope of getting Sam back once Lucifer was defeated.

eta:

But if the writers ever wanted to convince me that Castiel could convince Dean to live after Sam died, they better give me slash onscreen.

I wanted to COMM this. Hee!

It did strike me yesterday that John Winchester, and thus the boys, might have been one of the most hardcore of the hunters. Every other hunter we've seen has at least some kind of home base.

Not all. Gordon and his Jesus buddy didn't. Jesus buddy had an RV.

I don't think Jo did, once she took off from the roadhouse, and it didn't look like Ellen had one after the Roadhouse burned.