I'm not familiar with any of this stuff from a biblical viewpoint, so I have no idea if the writers are using concepts that come from the bible or if they're just pulling all kinds of stuff out of the hat in a mishmash

They're pulling it out of a Cracker-Jack box, Sail. It's neither internally consistent nor consistent with how (mainstream) Christianity considers things to operate. I'm having a hard time accepting it on its own merits, because even aside from being inconsistent with what I was raised to believe, it doesn't make any sense to me.

Glad to know I'm not the only one. While I find the episode interesting and it hit some emotional buttons really well, I need a little internally consistent logic to wrap my brain around.

For me Christian theology is fascinating because in part because I have no stake in it. I'm not a Christian, and was raised not a Christian, so don't have the whole emotional not-a-Christian that people who came by their non-Christianity the hard way have. So it is this alien universe that fascinates me, but is more than that to most , so I have to be careful not to hit sore spots when wandering there.

And Supernatural theology fascinates me because I think in getting their theology out of a cracker-jack box, in the course of writing a horror series they have actually stumbled on classical polytheism, thinly disguised as Christianity, which is actually what hoodo, Voudoun, Voodo and so on often are.

For various reasons, I think polytheism is the default religious setting of horror movies. A horror fiction can end up Christian, or secular or whatever if the author works to make it so, but I think Polytheism is where horror ends up when the author is not paying attention.

A horror fiction can end up Christian, or secular or whatever if the author works to make it so, but I think Polytheism is where horror ends up when the author is not paying attention.

Yes, this.

I'm also firmly of the mind that the kind of theological system (be it poly or monotheistic or something else) that makes for a satisfying, compelling and otherwise interesting fictional universe is very rarely one I would like to live with in this universe. The reverse is also true.

They aren't exactly getting the cosmology from a cracker jack box. It is straight out of Vertigo comics and horror films. So alarmingly familiar to me.

They aren't exactly getting the cosmology from a cracker jack box. It is straight out of Vertigo comics and horror films.

It is as well thought out and internally consistent as if they had gotten from a cracker jack box. So not a huge distinction.

I wonder if we'll get Tilda Swinton or some snobby British guy if Gabriel ever shows up...

It is straight out of Vertigo comics and horror films. So alarmingly familiar to me.

So you expect to see the Saint of Killers show up any moment?

The inconsistency that bugs me is mixing the metaphorical and the literal.

Lucifer's *fall* was metaphorical -- he betrayed God. For that, he was banished to hell. For them to describe Anna as *falling* to earth is really pretty silly -- she didn't have a corporeal form at that point, what would have *fallen* was her soul (which I'm assuming is the one thing humans and angels share).

I also would have rather she blatantly disobeyed orders than deciding to *rip out her grace* because ... that's just silly. And provides a much too easy means of re-angelfying her. But I guess then she would have been sent to hell, which doesn't work for this plot.

Otherwise it seems sort of consistent to me. Angels and demons seem to be on fairly equal footing as soldiers in armies where the corporal operates largely behind the curtain. Demons have a bit more freedom when it comes to acting against humans (staging their own battles?), but they both take orders.

I'm sure there's a lot more I'm missing, though.

Okay, I waited to watch this ep until today since I knew there'd be a huge break before I saw another new ep.

One quick comment: I thought Anna was supposed to represent a "Wings of Desire" style angel. There are limitations to this analogy, but the watching over humans for thousands of years and yearning to be human seemed to be that kind of theme.

I can't quite get around the separation of the angel and her grace, but I've decided not to think too hard about that.