See, I don't think so. Isn't the soul, the person what needs to give consent?

Oh, they'd want the vessel, certainly. I'm just not sure someone else in it giving consent would work.

I get hung up on this issue when it comes to Sam's apparent inevitable damnation. Mary made a deal with Azazel and sold him Sam in return for John's life. But I thought conventional wisdom was that you couldn't sell someone else's soul, you could only make deals for your own. Because technically you don't own anyone else's. (Dean traded his own; that's different from him going to the crossroads and offering up, say, Bobby's soul.) In which case Sam wouldn't be predestined to have evil shadow him just from those few drops of blood. Because Sam himself never offered his soul.

Possibly I think too much.

My measure of estrangement between the brothers? When Kam (Kid in Sam) was menaced by the ghost, Dean yelled, "Sam!" not Sammy. And yes, the individual tied up in Wyattfloppy-haired blond kid's basement was Skid (Sam in kid). I remember my Fuffy and Baith lessons well.

But I thought conventional wisdom was that you couldn't sell someone else's soul, you could only make deals for your own.

All Mary knew about her bargain was that Azazel would be coming back for something in 10 years. For all she knew at the time, she probably thought Azazel would be coming for her.

Regardless, she didn't trade Sam's soul. Even after all this time, Sam's soul is still intact. Azazel just altered his physical make-up with Mary's deal. The damnation part is and always has been Sam's choice.

Dean clued into Sam being not Sam sooner than I'd worried. He definitely thought something was weird from the get go. He just didn't know what. It's kinda sad that "Sam" expressing his appreciation for the life and for Dean are what tipped it over. I have to shrug and pass it off to an episode being an hour long.

What I don't get is why Sam didn't exorcise the demon BEFORE it killed the blond kid

Why don't they exorcise more, period?

They played it like anything in Sam's meat could say yes and it'd count. Veracity of that aside, it read like Garry could give Lucifer the meatsuit invitation.

You're right -- the demons should know if it would work or not. But it still feels sloppy to me, plotting-wise.

You're right -- the demons should know if it would work or not.

Why? The fact that consent is required at all puts it outsdide of the typical demon possession junk. And I don't get Lucifer as the over-sharing type.

it definitely was sloppy, plot wise, especially because (in addition to thinking Aims is right about the consent issue), I just can't believe neither the angels or demons would have tried it before if that was all it took.

I liked the ep, but it was definitely a filler and needed a good sprinkling of handwavium dust.

I liked this more than most of you, I think (but that's usually true of me, since I'm way easy), and I don't mind that it's not as meaty (title aside) as some other episodes. This is the first episode of the back half of the season, and I don't think they can ramp up the angst and tension too high yet. It would be hard to sustain that over ten more episodes.

Plus, I like the look at Dean and Sam and where they are now, emotionally, and the idea that Dean and Sam are wanted men in more ways than one.

The biggest things that bothered me were the consent issue, which I don't think the writers thought through completely, and Gary and Nora at episode's end -- it really felt off to me that they didn't react more to knowing Trevor's death and body had to be dealt with, and that Sam and Dean didn't help them handle in it in some way, even if only to protect themselves.

Speaking of consent issues, was anyone else totally squicked by them using Sam's body to fuck someone? (Presumably, given the fade to black). I think that's why I was so antsy for Dean to catch on. I had to keep reminding myself that unlike demonic possession, Sam wasn't actually in there.

My biggest problem is definitely the vessel consent issue. I'm intrigued by Lucifer's interest in Sam's rage--if someone else can give consent, who cares? I like the rage thing--I don't want it watered down.

I don't think it took too long for Dean to cotton on, having mulled it over. He thought something was weird, but then "Sam" would show some knowledge of the occult. And it flipped and it flopped. I think it's sad that Dean doesn't know Sam as well as he did at the start of season 4, but a lot has happened since then.

And when he did work it out and lay a trap for Gary, I thought it was pretty damned cool.

Trip's body and the fact that Nora is still the logical person to get fingered for it (npi) is hugely sloppy but it bothers me less since it's a one-off messup and doesn't affect the mytharc.

was anyone else totally squicked by them using Sam's body to fuck someone

It's gross, but if Dean doesn't say anything, Sam doesn't need to know. Unless she left marks.